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Im for universal coverage via a payroll tax. I am NOT for first dollar coverage.
Copays and deductibles are important.
I personally know a guy who was worth ~500K who lost it all due to two severe illnesses. One killed his wife while the other hospitalized him for a couple weeks. He was employed. He is not a bum. He is worth nothing now.
Private insurance can stay in the gap insurance game.
Out of network people in in-network facilities has go to stop. I have a friend who got a 5K bill from an E room visit out of network radiology company who patrols the in-network hospital he was in for his daughter. They garnished his live in girlfriend/mother of his child and wrecked their finances for half a year. I have recieved a $1300 E room doc bill for a doc we never physically saw when we arrived at 1045PM and shift change was at 11PM. Neither he nor the other E room doc (Who did perhaps an hour of work on my wife) were in network in this in-network hospital.
Shkreli is in jail on other charges but his drug is still 50X higher than it was 2 years ago.
None of this will be fixed of course. The ability of the ubermensch to screw the untermensch is against freedom and shall not be impeded.
It is absurd stuff like this that needs to stop. This summer my 3 year old granddaughter fell and needed stitches. They kept her for several hours observation in the ER looking for signs of a concussion, one being vomiting. She seems fine and gets released and a few minutes later she vomits in the vehicle going home. They rush her back to the ER and despite her having been gone for only 15 minutes they process it as an entirely new event to be billed for. This summer I had a procedure that did not include me going to a recovery room. They billed $650 for use of a recovery room however and it took weeks of me arguing with them to get the charge removed. Though the bill clearly said Recovery Room, amongst the nonsense they tried telling me it was for was a doctor's fee for someone I have never even heard of let alone was part of my procedure.
I wonder how much of the billed expense overall is for services that never occurred.
Prices are like this BECAUSE third parties (insurance or government) pays most of the bill in many cases. And because those entities have deep pockets, it enables facilities to charge these prices. If consumers/patients went back to being the ones to pay the bill, there is no way health care facilities could charge those ridiculous amounts.
While this is true, it is also impossible.
Do you think 3 TRILLION dollars worth of the US Economy is going to allow itself to take a hit? Tell you what - when the security state is cut in 1/2 (From a trillion to 500 billion) , we can talk more.
Stating the obvious doesn't help us with our current problems. In the USA we have decided that chaos and money control everything. The Corporations (which, through stocks, are often you and I) will simply not allow a TRILLION or more in revenue to go away. Even the weakest of lobbying industries end up getting their way....that is, if you spend even a couple hundred grand per year, it's likely you will get a lot of what you want.
So the very idea that we are going to go to the Chinese model is crazy. Sure, I would love it ($5 to see a doctor, $20 for a good specialist, $50 for full MRI and maybe $50 for the procedure - broken hand, for example) is crazy. It's not going to happen since our current system yields $2K out of such a case.
Tell you want. If you believe in this - start or invest in a company doing it and you will become a Billionaire. But remember that States heavily regulate medicine and - sure as shooting - most of them will lock you out when they find you are cutting down their GDP by offering reasonable services.
Something has to give, and surely we will end up with a single payer system in some fashion. It cannot be 100% paid however in that we all need to have some skin in the game. If it costs nothing then many will over-use the system and demand more and more services. I saw this with my mother-in-law in her latter years. Going to the doctor became entertainment for her. When she'd get bored she start making doctor's appts for things that could not be fixed or cured, but they were glad to have her as each visit was a billing event. The visits would often be "How are you doing Mrs. L", "Great", "That's good to hear, see you again in 3 months". When My father-in-law was in the nursing home, his primary care doctor would come by, stick his head in the room, say "How are you doing Mr. L" (who had dementia) and then without much of a response, if any, the doctor would move on to the next room , billing each of them for office visits. My in-laws share of office visits was $5 if I recall so essentially they had no skin in the game and didn't think about the waste.
And some others move against ALL evidence which is contrary to both common sense and to real world examples - such as Europe, Japan, Australian, etc. which ALL have full coverage for all.
Most radical? You make me laugh.
In France if you survive an operation or condition they will often give you 6 months off AND send you to a resort to recover.
In Britain both hubby and wife get LONG periods of time off work when having a child...same elsewhere. ALL paid.
Those are in addition to the normal 5-7 weeks of PAID vacation by law.
Put up or shut up. Are you claiming that Bernie's plan contains more benefits than France, Germany or the UK?
Please specify.
Common sense says that corporations which are based on ONE thing - to make as large a profit as possible- don't like giving money back to their customers.
Common sense says that AT&T didn't invent the smartphone. They really liked it when my home phone bill was $150 per month. Instead they changed to reflect the reality.
2/3 of Health Care is already covered by the government. As you well know, that does not mean someone hired by the Feds is taking your pulse. That just means they are paying the bill because very few Americans can afford the real cost of Capitalist Health Care (about 40K per year for the average family).
And - yet - you think they should have the ability to charge more....while shifting all the costs to our national debt and deficit and society - is somehow genius?
Sorry, I don't get it. The best course of action always involves "modeling" - that being to:
1. Admit what we are doing is wrong - pretty obvious....
2. Look around at those who are doing a better job and use their experiences to improve.
Instead of doing this, the Right repeats complete and utter BS fed to them by their corporate owned think tanks.
We are obviously in different places here. You seem to be focused on benefits.
2/3 of health care is covered... thank you for confirming that we are not in a free market system.
The only other thing I agree with is that you don't get it. When you make statements that people are repeating corporate owned think tanks, it shows you don't get it. Maybe that's what you do ... repeat think tanks ... I don't do that.
Something has to give, and surely we will end up with a single payer system in some fashion. It cannot be 100% paid however in that we all need to have some skin in the game. If it costs nothing then many will over-use the system and demand more and more services. I saw this with my mother-in-law in her latter years. Going to the doctor became entertainment for her. When she'd get bored she start making doctor's appts for things that could not be fixed or cured, but they were glad to have her as each visit was a billing event. The visits would often be "How are you doing Mrs. L", "Great", "That's good to hear, see you again in 3 months". When My father-in-law was in the nursing home, his primary care doctor would come by, stick his head in the room, say "How are you doing Mr. L" (who had dementia) and then without much of a response, if any, the doctor would move on to the next room , billing each of them for office visits. My in-laws share of office visits was $5 if I recall so essentially they had no skin in the game and didn't think about the waste.
And how much does the third party insurance or government pay?
It's like you say... no skin in the game for her. For everyone else collectively, we pay for the waste.
For sure.... Liberals and (here's that disgusting word again) "resisters" continue to obstruct and block any and all progress being made in this country. They are so full of themselves and their "all about me" agenda, that they lack any common sense at all. These people crave the government taking care of them. Of course, they want free everything.
I sure has heck never said it would be Free, but neither would any system be it private or government. Thing is for most, a Medicare type system would be far cheaper than paying out of pocket and no one would have to do without basic coverage, isn't that the whole reason for reform, far too many could not afford coverage? I think ACA was just a step towards some sort of National Healthcare system, going backwards would do more harm than good so we need to come up with a better alternative, a Medicare type system looks to look like the best bet at this time, if you have something that would resolve the issue I, and Congress, would love to hear it.
you like your plan, you will lose it, and be shoved into government insurance.[/color][/indent][/i]
Some people continue to run in the opposite direction of common sense. Better and more affordable health care should move towards less government intervention – not more.
no you are wrong. and not only wrong but wrong on a scale hard to believe. no developed nation on earth has opted to let the private sector decide the fate of healthcare because it is the dumbest idea one could think of.
The private sector targets profits not people. this is why important services are either handled by the gov or highly regulated by the gov.
we don't let the private sector run our fire service do we? Nor do we let the private sector determine what chemicals farmers can use. in fact we regulate to protect the public and ensure fair and equitable service to the public.
Healthcare goes with education, police , military and such like. We share the burden we share the risk and everyone does a little better.
frankly drob4jc, you are in a decline minority. the MAJORITY want some form of universal care for 100% of the pop from birth to death. covered no matter what. we can sort out the details, we can decide how to ensure those who want more cover can buy it on the open market.
A public healthcare system provides healthcare security. It means people can retire younger without a worry about covering the gap. it means nobody needs to lose their home. it means anyone can just start a business and not worry about getting sick or injured and losing everything as they are bled dry.
It is a win for everyone. and it is cheaper, much cheaper .
From the OP's article: >> In fact, there are no OECD countries where the government picks up the entire health care tab. In Canada, government spending accounts for 70% of health costs, in Germany, 85%, in Sweden it’s 83.9%, and in the U.K. it’s under 80%, according to OECD data.<<
This is misleading garbage. It's a preview of the torrent of misinformation, lies and distortions that will come out if there's a serious push for Medicare For All.
Medicare does not and will not pick up "the entire health care tab." Medicare is basic coverage. As every senior knows, you need to buy supplemental insurance in order to get decent coverage. If you consider a supplemental plan might cost $300 per month and the value of Medicare might be $1,000 per month, then that implies about 75% coverage, in line with the OECD countries and Canada, which are cited above.
There is nothing radical about the Medicare For All proposal -- nothing! It already exists for seniors age 65 and over. Dropping the eligibility age from 65 to a younger age isn't radical, it's an expansion of an existing program.
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