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Old 03-28-2008, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,214,577 times
Reputation: 7373

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Since the insurgency in Afghanistan increased, the Afghan government has been dependent on American logistics and support in the war against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. To provide arms to the Afghan military, the American military gave a contract worth up to $300 million to an upstart company led by a 22 year old, whose vice president was a licensed masseur.

Since then, the company has provided ammunition that is more than 40 years old and in decomposing packaging, according to an examination of the munitions by The New York Times and interviews with American and Afghan officials. Much of the ammunition comes from the aging stockpiles of the old Communist bloc, including stockpiles that the State Department and NATO have determined to be unreliable and obsolete, and have spent millions of dollars to have destroyed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/wo...hp&oref=slogin


Where was the validation and oversight?
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:06 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,583,124 times
Reputation: 2823
That's not even that surpising even though it should be. It reinforces for me that government in incompetent and is not the answer to life's problems.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,214,577 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
That's not even that surpising even though it should be. It reinforces for me that government in incompetent and is not the answer to life's problems.
Sure looks that way! I know there is a lot of contractor oversight in DoD, I don't understand how something so large and dangerous could just slip by.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Orlando
8,276 posts, read 12,857,391 times
Reputation: 4142
it seems under the Bush regime contractors are not required to be competent... after all they don't even have to compete for bids they are awarded to the favorite son. Track down the personal connection and the answers will come.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,214,577 times
Reputation: 7373
Here is some further information, I can't believe what I am reading on this matter:

Pictures show that the ammunition was delivered in tattered cardboard boxes, wrapped in plastic. They also showed that the ammunition was corroded and made in China between 1962 and 1974.

US Army Suspends Efraim E. Diveroli, AEY Inc. Defense
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,864 posts, read 24,105,148 times
Reputation: 15135
It sounds like the ammunition in question was in pretty bad shape. Much of the ammo manufactured in eastern Europe used corrosive primers, which is a Bad Thing(tm).

It should be pointed out that generally speaking, age doesn't affect ammunition, unless there are other factors involved (such as the primers). WWII ammunition is routinely bought and used for target practice and other activities, and the majority of people using it don't experience any problems.

I'm not making excuses for for what happened - it's inexcusable. I just wanted to point out that old ammunition is not necessarily bad ammunition, and the age of the ammo in this story shouldn't be as big of a factor as some people are making it out to be.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,167,662 times
Reputation: 4957
Quote:
Originally Posted by AONE View Post
it seems under the Bush regime contractors are not required to be competent...
Besides the fact that I take slight offense to that remark - for this scenario, I will have to agree that those contractors are incompetent.

This kind of stuff is quite disturbing. These are our boys and girls, men and women, who've given up the freedom of a civi lifestyle - yet, some contracting company abuses their privileges like this?

It's really disgusting - and even as a contractor, I think the government needs to have more oversight on what is done.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,214,577 times
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The story is remarkable, I can't believe some of the stuff I have been reading this afternoon concerning this story (some excerpts):

By 2005, when Mr. Diveroli became AEY’s president at age 19, the company was bidding across a spectrum of government agencies and providing paramilitary equipment — weapons, helmets, ballistic vests, bomb suits, batteries and chargers for X-ray machines — for American aid to Pakistan, Bolivia and elsewhere.

Two federal officials involved in contracting in Baghdad said AEY quickly developed a bad reputation. “They weren’t reliable, or if they did come through, they did after many excuses,” said one of them, who asked that his name be withheld because he was not authorized to speak with reporters.

Under the suspension ordered Wednesday, the Army planned to continue accepting ammunition it had already ordered from AEY. As of March 21, it had ordered $155 million of munitions, according to the Army Sustainment Command.


Remarkable.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers Fl
2,305 posts, read 3,028,434 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by AONE View Post
it seems under the Bush regime contractors are not required to be competent... after all they don't even have to compete for bids they are awarded to the favorite son. Track down the personal connection and the answers will come.

It does not matter if it is a Democrat or Republican in office, we need small government. Let private buisness with competition operate this country. Something like a Free Capitalist Society. Just think how the government could screw up our health care industry if they took over.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,214,577 times
Reputation: 7373
This story, while absolutely horrible in it's own right, certainly should give folks pause about Gov't integrity and oversight.

Even when the Army folks in Afghanistan complained about the sub-standard shipments to the Rock Island Army Depot, they continued to be sent another million rounds of pure junk.
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