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Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 3 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,180 posts, read 13,461,836 times
Reputation: 19498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Bolded is the key difference between the USA and the UK. The UK places higher importance on having a perfectly pristine trial for the accused than pretty much everyone else's rights. The British expect that the draconian gag orders on anyone talking about ongoing court trials to provide them with a perfectly unbiased jury. They don't have a process of jury selection where the defense or the prosecution (not sure the terms are the saem in the UK) can disqualify jurors they think are biased. They use the scourge of extremely ambiguous charges as "disturbing the peace" or "contempt of court" to maintain the desired silence. It's just weird that the Brits think it's perfectly acceptable to send people to prison for filming something. It's downright bizarre that their court systems can let the guilty go just because everyone's already heard about their crimes.
They pick jurors in the UK just in the same way as they do in the US.
In terms of trials with reporting restritions they usually involve cases of rape where the victim has a right to annonymity.
In terms of the accused they are innocent until proven guilty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunde
In the USA, the right to free speech trumps everything in this kind of situation. Try to tell CNN, Fox News or the New York Times that they can't report on a pending case and they'll throw a fit like you wouldn't believe. Arrest somebody just for filming outside a courthouse and the entire country will be furious. The US courts have to find a way to be as impartial as possible. Juries are vetted and sequestered. Apparently that's not how it works in the UK.
The law in relation to sub judice applies to numerous countries including Canada.
The problem with the British system is that it simply isn't sustainable in the modern era. If a Muslim rape gang gets arrested, then it's next to impossible to stop somebody from getting all the info and posting it online. This case in particular is going to make matters worse. Much worse. People all over the world now think -- with a massive amount of good reasons -- that the British government is trying to allow Muslims to continue raping little white and other non-Muslim girls without doing a damn thing about it. So you can expect a whole lot of vigilante live streaming to occur going forward. As the older generation that actually watches news on TV dies off, this will get the word out to absolutely everybody. The court system can't have i their way anymore. The British courts need to adapt to the modern paradigm.
The single most damning action in this case was the judge banning the whole of Great Britain from even talking about Tommy Robinson's arrest. Nevermind that Brits are doing it anyways. That arrest followed by that order looks eerily similar to Stalin's Russia where somebody can just disappear one day and nobody dares say a peep about it. It looks like they're trying to do exactly that and it's going to scare people.
There is no problem with the current sysyem as it allows anonymity for victims and the right to innocent until proven guilty.
You know that thing called 'Due Process' that was denied after 9/11 in cases sent to Guantanamo Bay.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 3 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,180 posts, read 13,461,836 times
Reputation: 19498
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
Sure... Locked up for making jokes and hurting feelings. Sounds like a wonderful place to live for someone that has never experience liberty.
There is a reason, people that come here, don't want to leave.
I wasn't aware that rape trials were a source of humour or a joke, which is why reporting in relaion to annonymity is taken so seriously.
You're way down the list (the best score U.S. obtains is 18th) from the top nations with actual 'rubber hitting the road' freedoms from individual freedoms, through economic freedoms to freedom of the press. AND you're going down the scale each year.
Stop drinking the "numero-uno" Kool-Ade. It was bullcrap when you were segregating blacks into the 60's and it's still bullcrap today.
LOL did I touch a nerve or what? We are home to 19% of the worlds immigrants, numero uno on that list. We are the destination, the beacon for the world. I don't care about some bogus biased list and well thanks for playing the race card, what a surprise. I had nothing to do with segregation thank you, I was not a party that at all.
Our constitution is head and shoulders above any others and we are still the one.
There is no problem with the current sysyem as it allows anonymity for victims and the right to innocent until proven guilty.
You know that thing called 'Due Process' that was denied after 9/11 in cases sent to Guantanamo Bay.
"What about" isms aren't an argument. Are you saying that because the USA illegally detained and tortured, that this makes endangering Tommy Robinson's life okay?
Besides, you're not addressing the gag order on talking about Robinson. It took the judge a whole hour to send Tommy to prison -- a place where his life is at significant risk -- for 13 months. Then that judge orders that the entire nation must be silent and not say a word about anything that just happened to Tommy. He's already been tried, found guilty, sentenced and sent to prison to begin his sentence, so why the gag order? The judge is using his media silencing powers to try to hide what he's just done. That makes it look like he knows it was wrong. What other explanation can there be? It backfired and now here we are. The whole world is looking on in shock as the UK tosses a freelance journalist into prison for 13 months just for running his camera, and a judge saying "you mustn't talk about this or we'll come for you!"
Now add this for context and the situation looks downright Orwellian.
More and more British citizens are going to get outraged and take action as we've already seen. Tommy is willing to be a martyr for the cause and the government is happily obliging him. In the extremely likely event that he is seriously injured or killed in prison, this is going to have thousands of people rioting in the streets out for blood because they think their government is out to get them. When he was a lone voice in the wilderness yelling about Muslim rape gangs and such, he was easy to ignore. Now we know he was right about all of that.
Forget what is or isn't legal for a moment. Fact is, this was a terrible move and nothing good will come from it. If they wanted to stop him, just detain him, remove him and set him free. Instead they're just proving Tommy's accusation that they're out to get him right.
This is pretty sickening. Talking about the rape/grooming of minors by Muslim gangs gets you put in jail, but the rapists have been walking around free for years. The judge should be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail.
LOL did I touch a nerve or what? We are home to 19% of the worlds immigrants, numero uno on that list. We are the destination, the beacon for the world. I don't care about some bogus biased list and well thanks for playing the race card, what a surprise. I had nothing to do with segregation thank you, I was not a party that at all.
Our constitution is head and shoulders above any others and we are still the one.
Only in your mind!
Wasn't just "one bogus list" but ALL of the independent orgs', some of them American, that measure the freedoms actually realized, instead of those bloviated about by Numero-Unos.
You're right I never should have mentioned your nation, under the very same constitution you hold up as superior, was for another 100 years or more still into slavery; that was unfair of me.
You're way down the list (the best score U.S. obtains is 18th) from the top nations with actual 'rubber hitting the road' freedoms from individual freedoms, through economic freedoms to freedom of the press. AND you're going down the scale each year.
Stop drinking the "numero-uno" Kool-Ade. It was bullcrap when you were segregating blacks into the 60's and it's still bullcrap today.
Yes, the obligatory hate America post of the day by this one. America is #1, no one else is close. The fact that maybe you think where you come from is #1, well we are happy for you. That's the way we want it.
Wasn't just "one bogus list" but ALL of the independent orgs', some of them American, that measure the freedoms actually realized, instead of those bloviated about by Numero-Unos.
You're right I never should have mentioned your nation, under the very same constitution you hold up as superior, was for another 100 years or more still into slavery; that was unfair of me.
Without our constitution and the struggle of a young country to survive and thrive under it we all might still be under some feudal system today or worse. Certainly without the help of America, Europe may have succumbed to the Nazi's and be under the throws of that regime. Lets not forget the Marshall plan. You owe us.
We are not perfect we have mistakes in the past but what is going on in Britain shows much less freedom there. And European nations and their criminalizing all sorts of speech is troubling. And some of these lists have Britain ahead of us in freedom. Give me a break.
What happened to Tommy Morrison is shocking. Even more shocking that it falls under the legal powers that the government has there.
Yes, the obligatory hate America post of the day by this one. America is #1, no one else is close. The fact that maybe you think where you come from is #1, well we are happy for you. That's the way we want it.
We just know better.
I would imagine North Koreans believe the are the most free people on earth. Because Kim tells them so and to think otherwise lands you in jail.
America's economic power rivals that of China with almost 5 times as many people and rivals all of Europe put together. And Europe can't even keep their EU together. And these societies had a thousand year head start on us. And our innovation is second to none. In fact the poster with all the hate for America owes us for having the luxury of us inventing the internet.
There is a lot of jealous and envy around the world towards America. That is fine. I can live with it. Threads like this make me very glad I am here.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 05-28-2018 at 04:34 PM..
"What about" isms aren't an argument. Are you saying that because the USA illegally detained and tortured, that this makes endangering Tommy Robinson's life okay?
Besides, you're not addressing the gag order on talking about Robinson. It took the judge a whole hour to send Tommy to prison -- a place where his life is at significant risk -- for 13 months. Then that judge orders that the entire nation must be silent and not say a word about anything that just happened to Tommy. He's already been tried, found guilty, sentenced and sent to prison to begin his sentence, so why the gag order? The judge is using his media silencing powers to try to hide what he's just done. That makes it look like he knows it was wrong. What other explanation can there be? It backfired and now here we are. The whole world is looking on in shock as the UK tosses a freelance journalist into prison for 13 months just for running his camera, and a judge saying "you mustn't talk about this or we'll come for you!"
Now add this for context and the situation looks downright Orwellian.
More and more British citizens are going to get outraged and take action as we've already seen. Tommy is willing to be a martyr for the cause and the government is happily obliging him. In the extremely likely event that he is seriously injured or killed in prison, this is going to have thousands of people rioting in the streets out for blood because they think their government is out to get them. When he was a lone voice in the wilderness yelling about Muslim rape gangs and such, he was easy to ignore. Now we know he was right about all of that.
Forget what is or isn't legal for a moment. Fact is, this was a terrible move and nothing good will come from it. If they wanted to stop him, just detain him, remove him and set him free. Instead they're just proving Tommy's accusation that they're out to get him right.
If it took an hour it was an hour too long. He had a suspended sentence for doing the same thing. Do you understand how a suspended sentence works? Typically any violation means you serve the sentence, never mind the same offense. Cops, rapist, child molestors go to jail all the time even though it poses a risk to them, there are mechanisms to protect them, things like protective custody, fear of retribution has never kept anyone out of prison.
You understand he had his trial the first time around, they gave him a break and gave him a suspended sentence and terms, he violated the terms, there you go.
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