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This is no longer about liberals and conservatives, those mean nothing today, it's americans vs. globalism, that's what is really means.
06-16-2018, 12:09 PM
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n/a posts
Words still mean something, but Trump has certainly corrupted the conservative label. Or rather, he's brought to light what was always there. The "conservative" part of the country is really two pieces. One that is rational and thoughtful and at least tries to make reasonable, informed policy, even if they get it wrong frequently. The other is a collection of gullible people driven by hate and fear and desperate to have someone coddle them and tell them who to blame. Those people don't actually care about policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
Trump is an immoral con man. He has no guiding principles except one I win- you lose.
It would be an insult to conservatives, republicans AND liberals to align him with any of those...
But in the old days, he would be considered a "limo liberal"...which, IMHO, is not always a good thing. Or maybe is never a good thing. That usually meant spoiled an a coke head...or in Don's case, a playboy.
Pretty much this, although he hasn't been a limousine liberal for a rather long time. You don't get to claim that title while also being a racist piece of trash whose entire political identity is centered on attacking minorities and blaming them for whatever is wrong.
I believe that the words “liberal” and “conservative” are becoming meaningless.
I’ll give an example:
Both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump spoke of the plight of ordinary working people; yet Sanders is considered “liberal” and trump is considered “conservative.” On economic issues, both Sanders and Trump had similar rhetoric.
In my opinion, the most important issue facing the country right now is the growing gap between the rich and poor, particularly the plight of the working poor. Does that make me a “liberal” or a “conservative?”
It seems that the “liberal” party (the Democrats) has abandoned ordinary working people (their traditional base since FDR and the New Deal) and have focused mainly on things like protecting the polar bears and pushing for transgender bathrooms. It seems that today’s “liberals” care only about fringe issues and have abandoned economic issues. The most liberal states, NY and CA, actually have some of the greatest inequality in the country: a tiny elite living in the major city (or two), and a vast population of dirt-poor living in rural areas with no opportunity, permanently priced out of the urban areas.
Republicans, of course, practically abandoned ordinary Americans the day after Lincoln was assassinated. They’ve always been the party of Big Business. But Trump’s rhetoric on economic issues sounded oddly progressive. I don’t think Trump is sincere, but it is nonetheless remarkable that so many “conservatives” would go for a guy that spoke about free trade deals screwing American workers.
This I think the the words “liberal” and “conservative” are no longer meaningful. They simply confuse and divide people into camps for no good reason.
What Free trade? All we've had is managed trade. A Free trade agreement doesn't have hundreds of pages in it. Because it said Free Trade?
Why do you think conservatives backed Trump? The anyone but Hillary did. Some of the same people who voted for Obama.
The most "conservative" stance in monarchy. Most modern so-called conservatives, "Republicans" are actively anti-monarchy and thus liberals by definition. The term "Republican" implies a relatively liberal position in that a republic is preferred over a monarchy and, indeed, they were the radical Far Left a few hundred of years ago in Europe and America.
They are as part of the Left as the Left.
What happens when your victorious liberals create a new paradigm? They become the "conservatives" of course, to the new liberal force that arises to take society ever further Left and away from the theology of monarchy and toward the theology of communism.
People, being the simple beings that they are, accept this new shift on political paradigm. The old liberals are now the hard Right.
Communism raises the proletariat machine, likened to an ant or robot colony, to the de facto theological position of God. Its the literal inversion of traditional religion in that the worst instincts an expressions of man are worshiped and the best expression of man, or the prototypical representation of God on Earth, in the King is maximally denigrated.
Its the precise opposite of what could be deemed good.
Nowadays, the average Joe could care less about such distinctions and there's been many Republicans who considered voting for Bernie Sanders and Democrats who voted for Trump. Like the OP said, it's all about fighting for the common man as opposed to being shills for the plutocrats and their agendas which generally hurt the common man.
The problem is: There are fringe movements on both sides that get more thrill out of seeing the other side suffer or lose as opposed to working together to ensure that the needs of the common man in the U.S. are met. And, frankly, that's what ticks me off the most about these fringe groups. As someone who's socially liberal and fiscally conservative, I've been attacked and chastised for both sides for not falling in line with everything that's considered proper "liberal" or "conservative" ideology.
In fact, I was roommates with a guy who was pretty far right who supported Ted Cruz and he constantly made fun of my decision, at the time, to support Rand Paul because he claims Rand Paul is a closet Democrat and not a true conservative. My thought as the time was "Who cares?"
I've also been chastised for saying that the Democrats could garner for support if they veered away from social justice issues and focused on the economy, education, and infrastructure.
These fringe movements, in general, only view each other through the lowest common denominator and try to influence everyone to share their limited view. And, frankly, a lot of them are just anti-conservative or anti-liberal to the point where anything resembling the "other side" is met with opposition.
In reality, there's tons of Americans like me who can't be put into a simple box, including socially liberal/fiscally conservative voters, socially conservative/fiscally liberal voters, Independent voters, Christians who support the LGBT, Atheists who are against abortion, Southerners/Midwesterners from big city environments, Northeasterners/Westerners from rural environments, Democrats against amnesty/DACA, Republicans against war/military expansion, etc. I've met all of the above and more just from interacting with tons of people.
But the media will never give attention to the masses of ordinary Joes out there like the aforementioned people who outnumber the fringe elements are extreme leftists and right wingers who get all the attention.
Im for universal health insurance. Liberal
Paid for with a payroll tax not just so me "get rich guys to pay for it" liberal?
With copays and deductibles. conservative
Against "free college" conservative
Against the latest defense budget increases. liberal
Against all this SJW crap. conservative
Pro gay marriage liberal
Sympathetic to working poor. Liberal
Unsympathetic to the couch potato poor. conservative
Do not want to raise income taxes on the rich. Conservative
Dont want to lower them either. Liberal
Want to end the carried interest deduction. Liberal
Want to remove any breaks for rent seeking activities of the rich. Liberal
Against so called card check. Conservative
Against 15 dollar minimum wage conservative
against so called job and housing guarantees conservative
Against private prison. Liberal
Against abolishing ICE. Conservative
For punishing employers of illegals. Conservative
I believe that the words “liberal” and “conservative” are becoming meaningless.
The Republican Party is no longer conservative, they have become a Fascist party. A lot of people throw the word "fascist" around without understanding the true meaning of the word.
There are about a dozen indicators that can be used to test whether or not a leader is a Fascist. Trump meets nearly all of those indicators: excessive nationalism, using immigrants as scapegoats for the nation's problems, demonizing religious and racial minorities, nostalgia, waging war on the free press, populism, using lies and propaganda, anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and being pro-crony capitalist and anti-labor.
The current political landscape is liberal vs fascist, not liberal vs conservative. True intellectual conservatism has all but disappeared.
Im for universal health insurance. Liberal
Paid for with a payroll tax not just so me "get rich guys to pay for it" liberal?
With copays and deductibles. conservative
Against "free college" conservative
Against the latest defense budget increases. liberal
Against all this SJW crap. conservative
Pro gay marriage liberal
Sympathetic to working poor. Liberal
Unsympathetic to the couch potato poor. conservative
Do not want to raise income taxes on the rich. Conservative
Dont want to lower them either. Liberal
Want to end the carried interest deduction. Liberal
Want to remove any breaks for rent seeking activities of the rich. Liberal
Against so called card check. Conservative
Against 15 dollar minimum wage conservative
against so called job and housing guarantees conservative
Against private prison. Liberal
Against abolishing ICE. Conservative
For punishing employers of illegals. Conservative
I fit NOWHERE
This.
Although my list on these issues may not look the same, good luck classifying me.
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