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Old 07-23-2018, 02:20 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,142,126 times
Reputation: 13661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Not necessary to have 2 standards. One is enough. What if Florida and Texas try this bull$hit next? The air doesn't have to be that clean. Clean enough is clean enough, and the federal standards are already too strict as it is.
Those strict standards are exactly why the air is currently "clean enough".

If you don't think the air has to be "that clean", then I trust you'll be a-ok with paying higher taxes and/or premiums to address increased healthcare needs as a result of the increased air pollution?

Just look at China if you think regulations don't matter.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:21 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Clean air is great, until I have to live in poverty to get it.

The quickest way to get clean air is to revert to a third world existence with no power plants, cars, trucks, or factories. No more sources of emissions!
Backwards Bizzarro world.

Why not use the real world instead? Our incomes have gone up, our life spans have increased and our poverty rates have gone down...since the EPA was formed. Air and water are MUCH cleaner.

Evidence means more than ideology. It's quite silly to act as if it is "one way or the other". What we are talking about is a thing called BAT...I dealt with it often in my career.

That stands for Best Available Technologies. What this means is that if I create a lawnmower or a generator or an outboard engine, there are standards set which call for the use of BAT...and these standards have been created with the INDUSTRY AT THE TABLE...and are usually instituted with little or no total cost (when all is figured in)...

Because of regulations, I can buy a great 47MPG sedan with an amazing amount of safety features for a price which is even with or lower than inflation.
(3500 for avg car in 1970, 28K will buy me a vastly better Accord Hybrid today - exactly the CPI)....

This is a system that has worked for all involved. 1/50th or less of the pollution. 3 to 4X the MPG. Lasts as least twice as long....has airbags and crumple zones and much more. FOR THE SAME PRICE...

You can thank regulation for the fact that many of our loved ones are alive today.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:21 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,716,760 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
What about the cheeeeeeeeeldren? You didn't even mention them.
So Republicans care about the children when it comes to abortion, but they do not care about the air the children breathe once born and in fact mock the idea of caring?
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,142,126 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
so can we let states set their own Abortion laws too? or does 'States rights' only extend where you want it?
Sure. States rights are states rights.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:22 PM
 
10,681 posts, read 6,117,157 times
Reputation: 5667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
So Republicans care about the children when it comes to abortion, but they do not care about the air the children breathe once born and in fact mock the idea of caring?
Save the fetus, screw the child..
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:23 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,716,760 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
Those strict standards are exactly why the air is currently "clean enough".

If you don't think the air has to be "that clean", then I trust you'll be a-ok with paying higher taxes and/or premiums to address increased healthcare needs as a result of the increased air pollution?

Just look at China if you think regulations don't matter.
It's ironic that China has fully embraced cleaning up their environment while Trump supporters have gone the opposite direction, trying to do everything they can to destroy it.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:25 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Not necessary to have 2 standards. One is enough. What if Florida and Texas try this bull$hit next? The air doesn't have to be that clean. Clean enough is clean enough, and the federal standards are already too strict as it is.
How many early deaths, cases of respiratory disease (lots among kids), etc. do YOU consider "enough"???

The American Lung Association says that about 140 Million Americans currently are exposed often to unhealthy air.

http://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/.../key-findings/

So, how far backwards would suit you? Is 1970 calling with cars 40X as dirty? Or 1960 when they were 50X as dirty?
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:25 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,043,693 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Yes. And this is very consistent with that. Let states regulate their own environmental standards. Then when Trump country visits the blue states, they will get to see what the earth is supposed to be like. They are what WALL-E was made for. But I don't care about red states, they can do what they want to themselves.



So a state should be punished for being successful? They are the sixth largest economy in the world. There is ZERO reason they should no be able to set the emissions standards on cars bought and sold in that state.

Are you willing to pay for it 100%? Meaning your car prices include all your special regulations and I don't have to pay a nickel more for my car? If so, we're good!
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:25 PM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,459,324 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
Trump and gang are doing a super job of turning America into a third world country.
I don't know if this is still true, but there was a time when the US auto manufacturers were arguing against pollution standards in the USA which they claimed they could not meet when they were already meeting higher standards in China!

Yes, China had stricter pollution control regulations than the USA at that point, and the American companies were meeting them.

Most of the Republican policies on environment have been to take us back to the polluted times of the 1950's through 1970's. This happens to be when cancer really took off in this country.

And yes, China has a serious pollution problem, and product safety issues. They generally have the laws but are somewhat weak on enforcement in many places. Americans sometimes make fun of it, but that's what we'll get here if business is allowed to get it's way.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:26 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,716,760 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Actually its just the opposite. You were against individual states having any control over federal environmental regulations. Now you are for CA having control over federal environmental regulations.

No one cares about your seething hatred for the President or the states that overwhelmingly voted for him either.
California is not asking for federal control. California is imposing their own emissions standards. What car manufacturers do with that is on them. Car manufacturers cater to vehicles that drive on the right side of the road in other countries, they can cater to two levels of emissions standards. Blue states will likely adopt the lower emissions standards and red states can pollute away. Just don't make us pay for their lung damage.
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