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Old 08-16-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,286 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15645

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
The burden of proof on the prosecution is to prove that Manafort personally knowingly and intentionally defrauded these banks and the IRS. There really was not very much evidence that plausibly could be said served to prove THAT.

But on a couple of points, it is a close call, so I will not be surprised to these verdicts could go either way.

It seems like the next case in September is more likely than this one to result in a conviction.

All of you who are jumping to conclusions here appear to be letting your partisan biases and your emotions get the better of you. Don't be surprised if Manafort is exonerated here for lack of proof.


Manafort had to have some understanding that his income was non-existent, smart enough to set up 31 foreign bank accounts but he didn't know he was broke when he went in for a loan. I don't see that flying. Why was he seeking a loan in the first place.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,755 posts, read 9,647,591 times
Reputation: 13169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Important to note that these charges are from 12 years ago and have nothing to do with Russia or Trump but carry on.
Everyone knows that except for a few cons, one who even stated that the case would never even get to a jury!

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Old 08-16-2018, 09:02 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,519,803 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Manafort had to have some understanding that his income was non-existent, smart enough to set up 31 foreign bank accounts but he didn't know he was broke when he went in for a loan. I don't see that flying. Why was he seeking a loan in the first place.
This is exactly what I am talking about.

Manafort's explanation does not have to "fly". It is the prosecutor's case that has to "fly" - over the require burden of proof, which in this case is to prove that Manafort himself knowingly and intentionally defrauded these banks and the IRS. It is not presumed that he did, rather it is presumed that he didn't.

As far as the banks, that is going to be a steep uphill climb, as he pledged security that is more than the value of the loans, so the banks do not appear to have suffered any actual loss.

The IRS charges are more compelling, as the boxes indicating that these company's had overseas accounts were not checked and the accountant was apparently misinformed by the Manafort organization.

But was it shown that Manafort himself knowingly and intentionally mislead the IRS? That is what has to be shown here, and while it is not out of the question, it is not clear to me that the prosecution achieved that burden of proof. But it is up to the jury now. We will soon see what they think.

Again, the case in September appears to be more likely to result in a conviction than this one does, regardless of how this one turns out.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:02 AM
 
Location: FL
20,702 posts, read 12,533,837 times
Reputation: 5452
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Important to note that these charges are from 12 years ago and have nothing to do with Russia or Trump but carry on.
Perhaps you should read what was said at the trial.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:05 AM
 
8,498 posts, read 4,561,677 times
Reputation: 9754
Manafort is just sitting back waiting for the pardon after his conviction. People that protect or say nice things about Trump get rewarded via Trump's use of the lever of government for his own personal purposes.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:08 AM
 
Location: FL
20,702 posts, read 12,533,837 times
Reputation: 5452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
This is exactly what I am talking about.

Manafort's explanation does not have to "fly". It is the prosecutor's case that has to "fly" over the require burden of proof, which in this case is to prove that Manafort knowingly and intentionally defrauded these banks and the IRS. It is not presumed that he did, rather it is presumed that he didn't.

As far as the banks, that is going to be a steep uphill climb, as he pledged security that is more than the value of the loans, so the banks do not appear to have suffered any actual loss.

The IRS charges are more compelling, as the boxes indicating that these company's had overseas accounts were not checked and the accountant was apparently misinformed by the Manafort organization.

But was it shown that Manafort himself knowingly and intentionally mislead the IRS? That is what has to be shown here, and while it is not out of the question, it is not clear to me in any case that the prosecution achieved that burden of proof. But it is up to the jury now. We will soon see what they think.

Again, the case in September appears to be more likely to result in a conviction than this one does, regardless of how this one turns out.
He said he didn't have any foreign accounts. He even said that in an email. That wasn't the truth.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Central Mexico and Central Florida
7,150 posts, read 4,904,543 times
Reputation: 10444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
The burden of proof on the prosecution is to prove that Manafort personally knowingly and intentionally defrauded these banks and the IRS. There really was not very much evidence that plausibly could be said served to prove THAT.

But on a couple of points, it is a close call, so I will not be surprised to these verdicts could go either way.

It seems like the next case in September is more likely than this one to result in a conviction.

All of you who are jumping to conclusions here appear to be letting your partisan biases and your emotions get the better of you. Don't be surprised if Manafort is exonerated here for lack of proof.
They have him for sure on the IRS charges. FBAR has stiff penalties for failing to report foreign bank accounts over equiv. $10K USD average annual balances....and IRS asks on the form, Did you have a foreign bank account? For all the years in question, Manafort checked the NO box. As an expat in Mexico, this is basic stuff....everyone knows it, the local banks remind you, etc. etc. etc. No excuse for us lowly expats, no excuse for Manafort.

On the bank loans, I think they should have charged the BANKER who wanted to be Secy of Army...he put his other customers at risk by underwriting Manafort's loans.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:13 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,519,803 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna-501 View Post
He said he didn't have any foreign accounts. He even said that in an email. That wasn't the truth.
This is what it may come down to on the IRS issue. That appears to me to be the more likely point of guilt than the bank loans, if any convictions come out of this.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:15 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,095,474 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothetwist View Post
They have him for sure on the IRS charges. FBAR has stiff penalties for failing to report foreign bank accounts over equiv. $10K USD average annual balances....and IRS asks on the form, Did you have a foreign bank account? For all the years in question, Manafort checked the NO box. As an expat in Mexico, this is basic stuff....everyone knows it, the local banks remind you, etc. etc. etc. No excuse for us lowly expats, no excuse for Manafort.

On the bank loans, I think they should have charged the BANKER who wanted to be Secy of Army...he put his other customers at risk by underwriting Manafort's loans.
Hopefully this will be coming up. I guess that banker never heard of "fiduciary responsibility".
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:17 AM
 
11,404 posts, read 4,085,616 times
Reputation: 7852
Paul Manafort's life is now in the hands of 12 of his peers.

Manafort is 69 years old, and facing 270 years in federal prison.


https://twitter.com/politics12news1/...10723853115392
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