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Old 08-18-2018, 03:04 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,600,924 times
Reputation: 16439

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This is a proposal for "free" healthcare in the U.S. In other countries with "socialized" healthcare, one of the biggest issues and criticism is long wait times and rationing. Some countries create "death panels" to determine who gets what. A fair criticism. But, if the U.S. does create universal healthcare, there would need to be some type of system fair to the taxpayers. To solve the problems of both rationing and taxpayer fairness, the U.S. could create a tier system based on taxes paid. Each year the system issues you an ID card and tier based on the amount of federal income taxes you actually paid the prior year. Let's say there were 5 tiers 1 - 5 with one being the highest/best. If you needed a knee replacement (uncomfortable but not an emergency) and your tax payments put you in the second tier, then you would be put on the list above those in tier 3-5. It would work the same for similar-related ED complaints. Let's say a tier 2 and tier 3 arrive around the same time in the ED both having fallen and hurt their wrist. The tier 2 goes in first. Obviously, a person who is critical would go in ahead of them regardless of the tier. But this makes for a fair, "free" system. Sure, the people who pay no taxes will wait the longest, but they also get the most for nothing. Before you say this this unfairly hurts low income people, note that a rich person who inherited all his money from daddy and pays no income tax himself would be at the same level as a poor person who pays no income tax.

Great idea, great system.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,124,162 times
Reputation: 1747
A better solution:

As healthcare is a consumer good, get the State COMPLETELY out of it and return it to the free market. Prices will go down and quality will go up.

All taxation is theft anyway, so any discussion that doesn't acknowledge this is moot.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:30 PM
 
45,237 posts, read 26,470,793 times
Reputation: 24997
like any other service; there are plumbers to service people with plumbing problems, there are auto repair facilities to service people with car problems, there are electricians to service people with electrical issues, medical providers for people with health issues and so on. No govt is needed for any of it.
Nothing is free, people pay for plumbers, electricians and auto repair, and they can pay for health care.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: MS
4,395 posts, read 4,915,062 times
Reputation: 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
This is a proposal for "free" healthcare in the U.S. In other countries with "socialized" healthcare, one of the biggest issues and criticism is long wait times and rationing. Some countries create "death panels" to determine who gets what. A fair criticism. But, if the U.S. does create universal healthcare, there would need to be some type of system fair to the taxpayers. To solve the problems of both rationing and taxpayer fairness, the U.S. could create a tier system based on taxes paid. Each year the system issues you an ID card and tier based on the amount of federal income taxes you actually paid the prior year. Let's say there were 5 tiers 1 - 5 with one being the highest/best. If you needed a knee replacement (uncomfortable but not an emergency) and your tax payments put you in the second tier, then you would be put on the list above those in tier 3-5. It would work the same for similar-related ED complaints. Let's say a tier 2 and tier 3 arrive around the same time in the ED both having fallen and hurt their wrist. The tier 2 goes in first. Obviously, a person who is critical would go in ahead of them regardless of the tier. But this makes for a fair, "free" system. Sure, the people who pay no taxes will wait the longest, but they also get the most for nothing. Before you say this this unfairly hurts low income people, note that a rich person who inherited all his money from daddy and pays no income tax himself would be at the same level as a poor person who pays no income tax.

Great idea, great system.
Net taxes. Which leaves almost 50% of the people to pay their for their own healthcare.


But I agree with the last guy that the government should be out of the healthcare business completely. If a state or county charter allows that government entity to run a facility then they can open one. Otherwise it is a private business and they can operate in any way they see fit.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:45 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,969,746 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
like any other service; there are plumbers to service people with plumbing problems, there are auto repair facilities to service people with car problems, there are electricians to service people with electrical issues, medical providers for people with health issues and so on. No govt is needed for any of it.
Nothing is free, people pay for plumbers, electricians and auto repair, and they can pay for health care.
You dont die if you are born in a household who cant pay the auto repair bill. You would die as a child if you were born disabled and your parents couldnt pay the price to treat you. Whats so great about that?
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:47 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,969,746 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
Net taxes. Which leaves almost 50% of the people to pay their for their own healthcare.


But I agree with the last guy that the government should be out of the healthcare business completely. If a state or county charter allows that government entity to run a facility then they can open one. Otherwise it is a private business and they can operate in any way they see fit.
Good luck taking medicine that will give you cancer 10 years later. After all, the providers are allowed to do whatever they want in an unregulated market and if you think you can run to the courts when you are lying on your death bed, think again. The courts are packed with corporate judges and you're just a simple consumer.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,124,162 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
You dont die if you are born in a household who cant pay the auto repair bill. You would die as a child if you were born disabled and your parents couldnt pay the price to treat you. Whats so great about that?
Prices would come down naturally in completely free-market healthcare. Back in the day a doctor would make a house call--or you would visit his office--and you would pay him directly. Most doctors would also allow payments on credit--or work for no cost--for those who couldn't afford to pay in full. Hospitals worked the same way.

Sounds pretty great to me.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,998 posts, read 3,737,449 times
Reputation: 4163
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
A better solution:

As healthcare is a consumer good, get the State COMPLETELY out of it and return it to the free market. Prices will go down and quality will go up.

All taxation is theft anyway, so any discussion that doesn't acknowledge this is moot.

Maybe moot to you but to the vast majority of the rest of the US it's a valid argument. Our free market healthcare system that we've had in place for years is an unmitigated disaster. Why would we want to continue down a path that we know doesn't work? The solution is to adopt a single payer system like the rest of the civilized world. This solution is gaining tremendous support with the American public.
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,124,162 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
Maybe moot to you but to the vast majority of the rest of the US it's a valid argument. Our free market healthcare system that we've had in place for years is an unmitigated disaster. Why would we want to continue down a path that we know doesn't work? The solution is to adopt a single payer system like the rest of the civilized world. This solution is gaining tremendous support with the American public.
“Free-market healthcare.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! !!!111!1!1!1!1

Healthcare in the U.S. is as free-market as farming was in Maoist China.

Single-payer requires the theft and redistribution of income and resources from producers to takers.
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:02 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,969,746 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
Prices would come down naturally in completely free-market healthcare. Back in the day a doctor would make a house call--or you would visit his office--and you would pay him directly. Most doctors would also allow payments on credit--or work for no cost--for those who couldn't afford to pay in full. Hospitals worked the same way.

Sounds pretty great to me.
If you think doctors and hospitals will work for no cost and treat everyone who has a need, you are not being realistic. If you as a child were born disabled, and your parents couldnt pay for treatment, you would simply die in your system.
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