Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IMO large amounts of black people, ESPECIALLY young ones have allowed themselves to be led by white leftists. Of course many young white people have been brainwashed by leftists as well. Political correctness, identity politics and socialism are a cancer upon our society, leftist brainwashing is the reason for this problem. The black community has been heavily affected by this leftism. Outrage culture is also heavily entrenched in the black communitity. I do believe much of it has been taught, and yes I believe white liberals have done much of the teaching. Do I believe black people think for themselves? Yes they can obviously but unfortunately most of them have joined the leftist groupthink instead. This groupthink tells them confederate flags are offensive, anymore who challenges this is a racist, blacks are discriminated against, white people are bad etc. You know this is true.
Funny you have accused me of gaslighting twice in this thread alone, in other posts I hear you use the accusations of gaslighting and confirmation bias often. Why do only liberals use these words. I dispute what you say or believe and I am gaslighting? I give you an example of an experience I had to back up my claims and it’s confimation bias Well at least you have not called me a racist YET.
Of course the confederate flags are offensive. You need to step outside your republican/conservative groupthink bubble and have more empathy for your fellow Black citizens. You're flying a flag of a cause that would have kept them enslaved if they won. You can claim state rights all you want, but that is a fact.
Many tried to escaped. And consider this. After slavery ended, there were many Blacks who left the South. This number increased into the 20th century. The South used to be home to 90 percent of the country's Black population. Now it's home to 55 percent of it thanks to the Great Migration. Ask yourself why so many Blacks left the South. And ask yourself why slaves were trying to escape slavery, even rebel. Look up Nat Turner's Rebellion. Look up Gabriel Prosser. German Coast Rebellion.
Quote:
And yet, there were free blacks of the south, before the war, how'd that happen? ... Also, if the Transatlantic Trade market had never been created ... ?
Very few free Blacks. And most of those "free Blacks" were the mixed race Creoles in Louisiana. The vast majority of Blacks in the South were slaves until slavery was made illegal. Blacks were more likely to be free in the North than the South.
And if the TransAtlantic slave trade had not happened, we would not be having this discussion. The Blacks who would come to America in the 20th century would have come voluntarily, and would not be dealing with the same kind of wounded psyche and problems many American Blacks deal with.
Quote:
You're right, I was in a hurry when I typed that out, so I made a typo. It was an 'experiment' and again, at present, I didn't read enough about it of the original content (the Freedmen of Port Royal) to understand the technicalities of that situation/event.
Well, at least you admitted to the typo. I make typos sometimes. I decided to read more about the Port Royal experiment. I had heard about it before (I lived in the Savannah area for a short time). I needed to know more before making any more statements about it.
Quote:
What you have found in reference to the constitution and other areas of the documents you are looking at, is "free" labor of the South (not the continuation of the transatlantic trade, which ended in 1808) ... they were not industrialized like that of the North and those that left the South and went North, found ... they were in just as much trouble there, maybe even more so, as they had "no" help getting established, where as in the South, they ran businesses.
The Port Royal experiment was free labor, not slave labor. They had not help. However, as free people, they had more chances to prove they could do something for themselves. And I don't see any Confederates doing that for the slaves. If I had to pick between being free and having little to no help vs being a slave, being free always wins. At least I would have more a chance. Freedom is the most important thing for me. The Confederate cause would have explicitly been opposed to my freedom.
IMO large amounts of black people, ESPECIALLY young ones have allowed themselves to be led by white leftists. Of course many young white people have been brainwashed by leftists as well. Political correctness, identity politics and socialism are a cancer upon our society, leftist brainwashing is the reason for this problem. The black community has been heavily affected by this leftism. Outrage culture is also heavily entrenched in the black communitity. I do believe much of it has been taught, and yes I believe white liberals have done much of the teaching. Do I believe black people think for themselves? Yes they can obviously but unfortunately most of them have joined the leftist groupthink instead. This groupthink tells them confederate flags are offensive, anymore who challenges this is a racist, blacks are discriminated against, white people are bad etc. You know this is true.
Funny you have accused me of gaslighting twice in this thread alone, in other posts I hear you use the accusations of gaslighting and confirmation bias often. Why do only liberals use these words. I dispute what you say or believe and I am gaslighting? I give you an example of an experience I had to back up my claims and it’s confimation bias Well at least you have not called me a racist YET.
In your opinion. That is your OPINION. The question is this. Were Blacks truly "brainwashed" as you claim, or did Black Americans start getting more bold and less afraid to say what's on their minds? I say the latter is the case. In the old days, Black people were willing to say anything and do anything just to survive. Of course you think it's "outrage" culture. There has been a long and drawn out history of telling Blacks to "shut up" when they were outraged, regardless of how legitimate the outrage was. Historically, alot of people didn't want to hear it from Black people because it was all about Black people "knowing their place".
How do you know Black people didn't look at Confederate symbols negatively before? Alot of people never listened or cared what Blacks had to say in the past. When the Civil Right movement was getting in gear in the 50s and 60s, many opponents brought out their Confederate flags, Why? A symbol of "white supremacy will live on down here and Blacks will have to accept it or leave".
Of course you would say Blacks are just practicing identity politics or "group think". Whatever helps you sleep at night. Here is what I think is going on. It bothers you that alot of Blacks don't like the Confederate flag because you want it to be the norm to fly it without any social reprisal. You just want to fly that nasty rag without anyone complaining. Well, the proverbial Pandora's box has been opened and there's nothing you can do.
I know about that stupid flag. One reason I don't own ANYTHING with the GA state flag on it if I can help it. I own more Seattle Seahawks gear than anything with the GA state flag on it.
I know that's right, thus the reason we keep having these discussions.
"Nearly half of whites (48%) say states’ rights was the war’s main cause, but so do 39% of blacks"
One day, it (the battle flag) will take it's rightful place in history ...
That still leaves far more Blacks seeing slavery as the major cause of the war. Blacks are far more likely to view slavery as the cause for the war than Whites.
And I found something interesting about the methodology:
Quote:
The analysis in this report is based on telephone interviews conducted March 30-April 3, 2011 among a national sample of 1,507 adults 18 years of age or older living in the continental United States (1,001 respondents were interviewed on a landline telephone, and 506 were interviewed on a cell phone, including 215 who had no landline telephone). The survey was conducted by interviewers at Princeton Data Source under the direction of Princeton Survey Research Associates International. A combination of landline and cell phone random digit dial samples were used; both samples were provided by Survey Sampling International. Interviews were conducted in English. Respondents in the landline sample were selected by randomly asking for the youngest adult male or female who is now at home. Interviews in the cell sample were conducted with the person who answered the phone, if that person was an adult 18 years of age or older. For detailed information about our survey methodology, U.S. Survey Research - Pew Research Center Methods
The combined landline and cell phone sample are weighted using an iterative technique that matches gender, age, education, race, Hispanic origin, region, and population density to parameters from the March 2010 Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey. The sample also is weighted to match current patterns of telephone status and relative usage of landline and cell phones (for those with both), based on extrapolations from the 2010 National Health Interview Survey. The weighting procedure also accounts for the fact that respondents with both landline and cell phones have a greater probability of being included in the combined sample and adjusts for household size within the landline sample. Sampling errors and statistical tests of significance take into account the effect of weighting. The following table shows the sample sizes and the error attributable to sampling that would be expected at the 95% level of confidence for different groups in the survey:
Had this research been conducted online, I think the results would be different.
Of course the confederate flags are offensive. You need to step outside your republican/conservative groupthink bubble and have more empathy for your fellow Black citizens. You're flying a flag of a cause that would have kept them enslaved if they won. You can claim state rights all you want, but that is a fact.
Some people aren't interested in that. Some people don't have ANY empathy and do not care what you have to say. You can show some people facts all day long. They will ignore them because they don't hear you and they don't want to hear you. I would feel better if some persons would say "yes, I know what the Confederate cause was about. I don't care, I'm flying this flag anyway" than to come up with these excuses like "states rights". I'm blunt. I say what I feel about the Confederate flag and back up how I feel.
IMO large amounts of black people, ESPECIALLY young ones have allowed themselves to be led by white leftists. Of course many young white people have been brainwashed by leftists as well. Political correctness, identity politics and socialism are a cancer upon our society, leftist brainwashing is the reason for this problem. The black community has been heavily affected by this leftism. Outrage culture is also heavily entrenched in the black communitity. I do believe much of it has been taught, and yes I believe white liberals have done much of the teaching. Do I believe black people think for themselves? Yes they can obviously but unfortunately most of them have joined the leftist groupthink instead. This groupthink tells them confederate flags are offensive, anymore who challenges this is a racist, blacks are discriminated against, white people are bad etc. You know this is true.
Funny you have accused me of gaslighting twice in this thread alone, in other posts I hear you use the accusations of gaslighting and confirmation bias often. Why do only liberals use these words. I dispute what you say or believe and I am gaslighting? I give you an example of an experience I had to back up my claims and it’s confimation bias Well at least you have not called me a racist YET.
Translation: Black people who do not agree with me are brainwashed.
You are guilty of the same behavior you propose to condemn.
Of course the confederate flags are offensive. You need to step outside your republican/conservative groupthink bubble and have more empathy for your fellow Black citizens. You're flying a flag of a cause that would have kept them enslaved if they won. You can claim state rights all you want, but that is a fact.
I will not change my behavior because your people have misinterpreted the reason we fly that flag and have learned to be offended and protest. There are far more of us than you think (those resisting political correctness) and we will not give up. I am going say something else black people hate but it needs to be said again and again until the message sinks in......time to let it go. Slavery was 150 years ago, Jim Crow ended in the 1950s. The reason white people like me are pushing back is because we are sick of all this. There is no institutional racism, it is illegal and has been since the early 1960s. The intensity and frequency of black complaints of racism and discrimination have increased over the years in spite of the law forbidding it. Now we are to the point where activists are tearing down historical statues or protesting the police for being to heavy handed with CRIMINALS. I don’t expect you to understand but many of us are just OVER IT. One of the reasons so many voted for a less than ideal republican President names Trump is because he said what he thought and stood up to PC and SJWs. America overall hates these people, yet the left did not learn their lesson in 2016 and continues on with “the cause”.
We can argue forever about why now black people have learned to be offended by the flag, white people and their historical figures etc. Really it does not matter because as I stated before we have no plans of giving up our freedom for y’all feelings. This is just one facet in the bigger leftist socialist cause. The two visions of America’s future one a socialist and social justice vision is not compatible with the traditionalist and capitalist one. I have a feeling this will all be settled in a relatively near future by a civil war, one in which you and I will be on different sides of. There is no common ground and I cannot imagine how compromise can happen. Our conversation is proof of how entrenched we all are and most of America is equally entrenched on their respective sides. The future is bleak but I am prepared to see a civil war happen in order to preserve our freedom and culture.
I will not change my behavior because your people have misinterpreted the reason we fly that flag and have learned to be offended and protest. There are far more of us than you think (those resisting political correctness) and we will not give up. I am going say something else black people hate but it needs to be said again and again until the message sinks in......time to let it go. Slavery was 150 years ago, Jim Crow ended in the 1950s. The reason white people like me are pushing back is because we are sick of all this. There is no institutional racism, it is illegal and has been since the early 1960s. The intensity and frequency of black complaints of racism and discrimination have increased over the years in spite of the law forbidding it. Now we are to the point where activists are tearing down historical statues or protesting the police for being to heavy handed with CRIMINALS. I don’t expect you to understand but many of us are just OVER IT. One of the reasons so many voted for a less than ideal republican President names Trump is because he said what he thought and stood up to PC and SJWs. America overall hates these people, yet the left did not learn their lesson in 2016 and continues on with “the cause”.
We can argue forever about why now black people have learned to be offended by the flag, white people and their historical figures etc. Really it does not matter because as I stated before we have no plans of giving up our freedom for y’all feelings. This is just one facet in the bigger leftist socialist cause. The two visions of America’s future one a socialist and social justice vision is not compatible with the traditionalist and capitalist one. I have a feeling this will all be settled in a relatively near future by a civil war, one in which you and I will be on different sides of. There is no common ground and I cannot imagine how compromise can happen. Our conversation is proof of how entrenched we all are and most of America is equally entrenched on their respective sides. The future is bleak but I am prepared to see a civil war happen in order to preserve our freedom and culture.
So much nonsense to unpack and to respond to.
Any Black person not offended by the confederate flag is an idiot, given what it represents. It's like some German flying the Nazi flag, screaming it's just about German pride, and you Jews get over it, that was back in the 1940s anyways!
You don't get to tell people to "get over it." Go on continue to fly the confederate flag. Put it on your property, put it on your truck, put it on your clothing. It's just easier for me to know I want nothing to do with you. So go on and do that.
Translation: Black people who do not agree with me are brainwashed.
You are guilty of the same behavior you propose to condemn.
You summed it up beautifully. Claiming Black people are "brainwashed" is just said person's way of gaslighting. Trying to paint a picture of "Black people are stupid for feeling this way". No different than some "doctor" back in the mid 19th century who claimed that slaves who ran away from bondage had "drapetomania". Why would someone want to claim a slave was crazy for running away from bondage? For the same reason the Confederate was dedicated to keeping slavery around. Slavery greased the wheels of the southern social structure and economy. Some people feared its demise.
The same can be applied to what we're discussing now. Someone saying "Blacks are brainwashed for not liking the Confederate flag" or "Blacks have taken the political correctness pill". It's a gaslighting tactic. But why? My theory is that said individuals don't want to be called out for lionizing such a vile symbol. The fear being "The more Black people and other persons call this out, harder it will be for me to fly this flag. I want to fly this flag and it be considered normal".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well at least you have not called me a racist YET.
