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This article does a a great job of pointing out how top level DOJ and FBI officials along with the DNC, Never Trumpers in both parties, and even the mainstream media conspired together to push anything they could find or use (whether by legal means or not) to take the President down. We're literally talking the biggest political scandal and government abuse of power and weaponization of government to illegally spy on an opposing political party in the history of this country and barely a peep from the mainstream media.
"Orange Man bad!!!"
I'm not going to bother wasting time listening or reading far right wing paranoia conspiracies. I did read the OP and it appears s/he believes the Clintons colluded with the Russians in order to elect trump so that the FBI and CIA could then blame trump and expose themselves as anti-American and we can only trust Putin b/c he has our best interests. Love the pretzel logic behind these conspiracy theory nutters. LOL
"As for the "coup", what evidence is there of such a conspiracy? There are meetings with Russians, e-mails, and testimony that are actual evidence of the Trump campaign being more involved with the Russians and their support for his campaign than was proper. While there are certainly a lot of people who criticize Trump, a conspiracy would involve coordination and planning. And there isn't any evidence of such things."
I mostly agree with ever part of your last post except the above quote. Listen to Dan Bongino's podcast with an open, objective mind. It is eye opening. He's a former secret service agent under W and Obama who clearly has very good sources and knows practically everything that went on back in 2016 and since with the FBI. Granted, he's a conservative but he's not an infowars. He makes very compelling arguments and plays out in great detail how the FBI, DOJ, and DNC colluded ri spy on Trump. All I ask is that those who say there's zero evidence to the spying allegations give his podcast a listen and try to refute his theories.
Btw, I agree there was maniacal hatred of Obama as well but it was from a tiny segment of the media. 90% of the mainstream fawned over Obama. He got an 8 year pass on any scrutiny and was vigorously defended when anyone didn't support a policy of his. It's been the exact opposite for Trump. The birther issue and the Obama is a Muslim agent stuff from the far right nots was ridiculous btw. Can't argue with that.
"As for the "coup", what evidence is there of such a conspiracy? There are meetings with Russians, e-mails, and testimony that are actual evidence of the Trump campaign being more involved with the Russians and their support for his campaign than was proper. While there are certainly a lot of people who criticize Trump, a conspiracy would involve coordination and planning. And there isn't any evidence of such things."
I mostly agree with ever part of your last post except the above quote. Listen to Dan Bongino's podcast with an open, objective mind. It is eye opening. He's a former secret service agent under W and Obama who clearly has very good sources and knows practically everything that went on back in 2016 and since with the FBI. Granted, he's a conservative but he's not an infowars. He makes very compelling arguments and plays out in great detail how the FBI, DOJ, and DNC colluded ri spy on Trump. All I ask is that those who say there's zero evidence to the spying allegations give his podcast a listen and try to refute his theories.
Btw, I agree there was maniacal hatred of Obama as well but it was from a tiny segment of the media. 90% of the mainstream fawned over Obama. He got an 8 year pass on any scrutiny and was vigorously defended when anyone didn't support a policy of his. It's been the exact opposite for Trump. The birther issue and the Obama is a Muslim agent stuff from the far right nots was ridiculous btw. Can't argue with that.
When Bongino's premise is a "deep state" conspiring against President Trump, that's a presumption that requires a leap of faith. There is a behemoth bureaucracy. Bureaucracies have an impetus, and don't respond to change well. They are also mindless. Mindless entities don't enter into conspiracies. So Bongino loses me before he even starts.
There is no quid pro quo if there is no quid. I recall Clinton getting double his usual speaking fees in Russia when Hillary was SOS. ARe you that dumb?
When Bongino's premise is a "deep state" conspiring against President Trump, that's a presumption that requires a leap of faith. There is a behemoth bureaucracy. Bureaucracies have an impetus, and don't respond to change well. They are also mindless. Mindless entities don't enter into conspiracies. So Bongino loses me before he even starts.
Bongino used his tenure at the Secret Service to leverage his career, while being an agent does provide some inside information it isn't broad in nature. He began as NYPD, ran for congress and his appearances on FOX News have been totally biased. Like you say anyone that uses the term deep state should automatically be dismissed.
The far left butt hurt just never ends. With either a minority or a no show in the following:
President of the United States - just keeps winning and winning
Senate
Supreme Court
State Governorship
Law Enforcement
Military Leadership
Fortune 500 CEO
Reckon they may as well stay home and pout on the internet.
We have had democratic and republic presidents, deep state is new. I recall cabinet members and political connections in several administrations being indicted and convicted particularly under Reagan, Clinton. Ken Starr was around for years investigating Clinton, approved by the DOJ director but the deep state issue was never raised. People took issue with the convictions but I don't recall anyone claiming there was some secret group attempting to overthrow an administration. I also don't recall any president claiming that the media was an enemy of the state, they have made mistakes over the years but served our democracy well.
I don't take these threads seriously when they claim there was an attempted coup, that's for those that don't quite understand how our government works. A publication called American Greatness and an OP that recommends reading up on Dan Bongino for the real story, this is the problem.
You make some fair points about past presidents and past investigations but the difference between those investigations and this investigation is that those past investigations were started based on probable cause that specific violations of federal law were committed. There was probable cause that people in the Nixon administration broke in and stole files belonging to the DNC for example (break in and theft). Iran Contra involved probable cause that arms were sold to Iran (an enemy) to illegally fund the Contras in violation of federal law which allowed for a special counsel investigation. Whitewater involved probable cause of violations of federal law that was the predicate for opening a special counsel investigation. It veered way off its mandate (wrongfully in my opinion) and ended up with Bill Clinton lying under oath in testimony material to the case in a sexual harassment lawsuit. It was an investigation run amok that shouldn't have veered so wildly away from its original mandate. In fact, Bill Clinton would have walked away totally unscathed if he had simply not lied under oath. He won in the end because the ultimate under oath lie had nothing to do with the original mandate of the investigation. Republicans foolishly and wrongly tried to impeach and it backfired big time.
The Trump/Russia investigation was much different from the other investigations. STILL, to this very day, McCabe, Comey, etc still haven't shown what federal law or statute the Trump campaign is being investigated or accused of. In fact, a criminal investigation hasn't even been open regarding any supposed "collusion" or "conspiracy" between the Trump campaign and Russia. Instead, the FBI decided to open an counter intelligence investigation against a sitting president...an unprecedented move in this country and the history of the FBI. Why is that? One major theory is that a criminal investigation involves the need for actual probable cause that a specific law has been violated whereas a counter intelligence investigation into "Russian interference in the 2016 election" is more open ended and can last for a long time and look into all sorts of things. They knew they had no Russian "collusion" on the Trump team but they just knew him and his people were so crooked they HAD to be able to find something on him that they could eventually get him on. In other words...."show me the man and I'll show you the crime". That ironically is a phrase coined by a Stalin era communist that Stalin took to heart when finding new ways to imprison/purge his enemies or any dissent he encountered.
As for Dan Bongino, I'm not saying he is the answer to all the questions related to this investigation. He is a conservative and generally supports Trump which can be take into account when judging his objectivity. Having said that, I brought him and his podcast up simply to offer anyone who is curious and wishes to play devil's advocate or at least hear a clear explanation of the case being made that the entire Trump/Russia investigation was an attempt to spy on and setup Trump from the beginning. I mention Bongino because he does a very good job of laying out all the players involved and the timelines in a details of the alleged conspiracy in a detailed easy to follow fashion. The guy clearly has inside sources because he's called out and discussed many things on his show that several months later come out in the mainstream just as he predicted.
Bongino has a free podcast and videos linked on YouTube that do far and away the best job of presenting the case against Trump/Russia collusion and the case that the FBI/Deep State icolluded with foreign actors to illegally spy on and set up Trump instead. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything or asking you to believe any of it. I'm just offering anti Trumpers a link to a very well researched, well reasoned, non conspiratorial understanding of the argument against Trump collusion and instead the other side's collusion if they want to understand it and learn facts the mainstream media refuses to report on. You might learn something
Bongino used his tenure at the Secret Service to leverage his career, while being an agent does provide some inside information it isn't broad in nature. He began as NYPD, ran for congress and his appearances on FOX News have been totally biased. Like you say anyone that uses the term deep state should automatically be dismissed.
In other words, write him off as biased and completely refuse to refute the researched points he's made because of a term he's used? That makes a lot of sense
How about actually taking the time to research the argument he is making and try to refute or debunk it with facts instead if he's so clearly wrong? Should be easy to do
I enjoyed reading that. It put the many bits and pieces together that we all knew about, and some that we (I) didn't. What shines for me it the simplicity of it all. It's clear and believable without requiring you to pretzel your mind and accept something farfetched. It's just humans fighting for power, the most basic thing in the universe.
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