Advice From (Possibly For) an Old "Corporate Rebel" (employment, generation)

[2nd trick op]

"And all our knowledge is -- ourselves to know" (Alexander Pope)

Let me begin this thread by stipulating that I am not seeking career advancement advice; while I would welcome an opportunity to do something in return for a paycheck -- however modest -- intensifying health issues make this unlikely in our gutted, post-industrial economy.

And while I was never much of a success in finding a path upward through a "Korporate Pyramid", I did well enough to identify and secure opportunities at least somewhat better sited to my personality, and to finance a house and a middle-class lifestyle; and one of the reasons for this is likely that I recognized, and early in the game, that I was not suited for the search for a work/life/(marriage) balance that snares and damages so many recent graduates.

The goal and purpose of the entire "human resources" process is to identify and, if not to exclude, to hold back the always-qualified, and sometimes-gifted, but introverted employee with a reluctance to submit to the conformity that characterizes most modern workplaces, And overall societal "megatrends" have intensified this conflict, and given more of the "upper hand" to the large, impersonal "anthills" in which many of us are/were employed.

I certainly don't mean to come across as an old, straight, embittered white guy -- but there's no doubt in my mind that civil rights, the emancipation of women, the increasing obsession with a desire for personal attention and service instead of a uniform, reliable and inexpensive product have all taken their toll. And it can be frustrating to see the clock run out before you've found a calling -- the fate of too many guys (and gals) in the New Workplace

I'd just like to hear input from other people who have recognized and struggled with this before offering any advice of my own

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

"And all our knowledge is -- ourselves to know" (Alexander Pope)

Let me begin this thread by stipulating that I am not seeking career advancement advice; while I would welcome an opportunity to do something in return for a paycheck -- however modest -- intensifying health issues make this unlikely in our gutted, post-industrial economy.

And while I was never much of a success in finding a path upward through a "Korporate Pyramid", I did well enough to identify and secure opportunities at least somewhat better sited to my personality, and to finance a house and a middle-class lifestyle; and one of the reasons for this is likely that I recognized, and early in the game, that I was not suited for the search for a work/life/(marriage) balance that snares and damages so many recent graduates.

The goal and purpose of the entire "human resources" process is to identify and, if not to exclude, to hold back the always-qualified, and sometimes-gifted, but introverted employee with a reluctance to submit to the conformity that characterizes most modern workplaces, And overall societal "megatrends" have intensified this conflict, and given more of the "upper hand" to the large, impersonal "anthills" in which many of us are/were employed.

I certainly don't mean to come across as an old, straight, embittered white guy -- but there's no doubt in my mind that civil rights, the emancipation of women, the increasing obsession with a desire for personal attention and service instead of a uniform, reliable and inexpensive product have all taken their toll. And it can be frustrating to see the clock run out before you've found a calling -- the fate of too many guys (and gals) in the New Workplace

I'd just like to hear input from other people who have recognized and struggled with this before offering any advice of my own

Dude ... come on.

You have to realize this sounds like straight-up bitterness. It becomes obvious in the paranoia about the "Always-qualified, sometimes-gifted but introverted."

There's just too many contradictions here to make an arguable point.

[Lekrii]

What exactly is the question out of all that rambling?

[Tencent]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

I certainly don't mean to come across as an old, straight, embittered white guy -- but there's no doubt in my mind that civil rights, the emancipation of women, the increasing obsession with a desire for personal attention and service instead of a uniform, reliable and inexpensive product have all taken their toll.

I agree. There are benefits and drawbacks to everything.

Emancipation of Women let to the devaluing of human labor. You increased your workforce by 100% making service labor less valuable. Nothing to do with gender and everything to do with supply and demand.

Civil Rights - Integration was not necessarily ALL positive in terms of economics for the Black community in particular. Prior to integration there was actually a Black Wall Street, that is long gone. If you look at many 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanics instead of seeking to own their own business like their immigrant parents, they are looking to blend into the mainstream and become another cog in wheel. But wealth is not built this way.

Re: Increasing desire for personal attention and customization. This is a problem also because it can be very SUBJECTIVE. It creates hundreds of niches but the reality is wealth is also not built this way. You can't scale niches. Wealth often requires a sustainable business model with high margins or something you CAN scale despite low margins. Besides, Walmart for example can customize, take the loss because they can just offset that loss with a cash cow, something they already control which is uniform, reliable and inexpensive. But guess what - Walmart and Target are not good for communities. Because the vast majority of those jobs are LOW PAID.

These factors you've mentioned in and of themselves are not inherently bad. Even in combination they are not bad. The bad part is - We have NOT accounted for the changes they have made to the economy. We have not adjusted expectations and behaviors accordingly. Entrepreneurship among minorities is too low. Men and Women still expect Marriage to work like the 1950's. We have a snowflake generation that doesn't understand not every experience can be "tailor made" and "curated" for them. Until we reconcile these issues (and many more) we'll continue to have just under half of all Americans living on a substandard income (contrary to what the "everything is well" hawks on this forum say ): https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrill.../#1c681d5d3e6c

[Wartrace]

People should probably consider their world view prior to taking any kind of employment. How hard is it? If you love B.S. go corporate. If it's just about putting food on the table go a different direction.

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by Lekrii

What exactly is the question out of all that rambling?

OK … I'll condense it …. recognizing that this is intended more for present-day applicants than myself.

Assuming I were going for a job today, how do I downplay the issue that there are certain aspects on which I can offer very little room for accommodation and compromise; and that the root causes are deep-seated and heavily-psychological? Pressure to make unsolicited sales pitches, which is rampant in call-center work, is a good example.

The process of pre-employment screening, the wider filed of candidates, and other factors of the post-industrial world seem oriented toward purging out the candidate with a string will, conscience, and/or value system.

In my career I had at least two promising opportunities turn sour, and several years after the original hire because, despite previous positive reviews, the new supervisor insisted upon imposing personal preferences which were strongly out-of-synch with my own.

And the issue appears to be intensifying in this gutless and spineless society, where no new employee can protect any aspect of his/her personal dignity unless imposed by law (a practice which creates a lot more pitfalls for all those involved). The ongoing, and embarrassing brouhaha over "transgendered" bathrooms. for example,

Originally Posted by Chaminade

Either you compromise or you won't. If you won't, then: Next candidate?

HR is there to help you, HR is there to protect the company FROM you.

is a challenge the attitude displayed above doesn't seem to know how to handle

[Chaminade]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

how do I downplay the issue that there are certain aspects on which I can offer very little room for accommodation and compromise;

Either you compromise or you won't. If you won't, then: Next candidate?

HR is not there to help you, HR is there to protect the company FROM you.

And, you and I as investors and consumers DEMAND companies are protected so our return on investment is as high as possible and the prices we pay are as low as possible.

Public companies exist for exactly one reason: raise the stock price. If a rebel hinders that, then get rid of the rebel.

Companies don't exist to provide you with a job. You exist to provide the company with labor.

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

Assuming I were going for a job today, how do I downplay the issue that there are certain aspects on which I can offer very little room for accommodation and compromise; and that the root causes are deep-seated and heavily-psychological?

Everyone isn't made for every job.

Are you suggesting they should hire you and then accommodate your deep-seated issues? Isn't that part of the gutless and spineless system you're railing against??

[Lekrii]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

OK … I'll condense it …. recognizing that this is intended more for present-day applicants than myself.

Assuming I were going for a job today, how do I downplay the issue that there are certain aspects on which I can offer very little room for accommodation and compromise; and that the root causes are deep-seated and heavily-psychological? Pressure to make unsolicited sales pitches, which is rampant in call-center work, is a good example.

The process of pre-employment screening, the wider filed of candidates, and other factors of the post-industrial world seem oriented toward purging out the candidate with a string will, conscience, and/or value system.

In my career I had at least two promising opportunities turn sour, and several years after the original hire because, despite previous positive reviews, the new supervisor insisted upon imposing personal preferences which were strongly out-of-synch with my own.

And the issue appears to be intensifying in this gutless and spineless society, where no new employee can protect any aspect of his/her personal dignity unless imposed by law (a practice which creates a lot more pitfalls for all those involved). he ongoing, and embarrassing brouhaha over "transgendered" bathrooms. for example,

Sorry, but I still have no idea what you're talking about. Are you claiming that introverts can't work in call centers? Or are you saying you are unwilling to learn to adapt and change as a person?

My advise, grow up a bit. Everyone learns to grow and adapt over time. Introverts can work in jobs that require talking, presentations, cold calling, etc. Extroverts can work in jobs that require heads down research without talking.

Fitting in with a group matters. If you really don't fit, or a different personality is something that is needed, no big deal. Every job isn't for everyone. My advise to you would be to lose the attitude. What on earth are you talking about regarding a "gutless, spineless society"?

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by Lekrii

Sorry, but I still have no idea what you're talking about. Are you claiming that introverts can't work in call centers? Or are you saying you are unwilling to learn to adapt and change as a person?

Certainly I'm willing to adapt -- if the potential conflicting points are addressed and resolved in advance.

As an example. for a couple of years I worked in a call-center environment in cable television -- in Wilkes-Barre, PA -- an older socially-conservative community. I thought I was hired exclusively to address technical issues, but the trouble began when pressure to upsell (including so-called "adult" entertainment") was imposed upon all employees, and drew protests from older Catholics and Protestants alike. This is an example of moral and similar issues which should have remained private, but were imposed upon all employees-- in the name of senseless "consumerism".