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Old 05-19-2008, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,865,200 times
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I'm sure a few of you have read James Howard Kunstler's book "The Long Emergency" which came out in 2005.

Amazon.com: The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of Oil, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century: James Howard Kunstler: Books

I just re-read the last few chapters and wonder if what we are seeing today is just the start of what happens after we've reached global peak oil production. Since America is more dependent on oil than just about any nation on earth (we consume 20 million of 83 million barrels produced daily), it seems we could take some of the hardest hits.

So, are we entering what Kunstler called The Long Emergency (which could take decades to unfurl) or is this just a sneak preview of something we won't see for 50 years? Or, is Kunstler wrong altogether?
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:01 PM
 
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I think things are converging in a dangerous way, but who really knows. Cannot really comment as I haven't read the book.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,975,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpat View Post
I'm sure a few of you have read James Howard Kunstler's book "The Long Emergency" which came out in 2005.

Amazon.com: The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of Oil, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century: James Howard Kunstler: Books

I just re-read the last few chapters and wonder if what we are seeing today is just the start of what happens after we've reached global peak oil production. Since America is more dependent on oil than just about any nation on earth (we consume 20 million of 83 million barrels produced daily), it seems we could take some of the hardest hits.

So, are we entering what Kunstler called The Long Emergency (which could take decades to unfurl) or is this just a sneak preview of something we won't see for 50 years? Or, is Kunstler wrong altogether?
Be careful when you read peak oil books. Many of these people have an envirowhacko agenda. Matthew Simmons, former GWB energy advisor and uber-conservative, is probably one of the most level headed sources on peak oil and no one with any intelligence can claim he has any sort of hidden agenda for his theories.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:34 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,561,099 times
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I'm a big James Howard Kunstler fan, but hadn't heard of this book. I HAVE given much thought, though, to the examples of the past, our propensity for repeating them, and of course, the all-too-true fact that nobody REALLY knows what will happen in the future, because, to a great extent, nobody's ever "done this before".

I think of our present-day seeming determination to embrace a multicultural future, throwing off as many restraints and restrictions as we possibly can, yet determined to proceed in this manner without asking any corresponding "duties" of our population...or even of our IMMIGRANTS, a great many of whom are now illegal, and will no doubt simply be given amnesty. Exactly what this will do to our traditional "rule of, and respect for LAW" isn't clear.
We seem to expect to be able to "get along" with all nations, no matter what their policies....we expect to win the hearts and minds of everyone, and are genuinely puzzled when it doesn't work. We can't understand why illegals don't seem to 'respect' us...yet it's obvious that many of "us" don't respect ourselves. We expect dozens of differing 'cultures' to be able to co-exist in America, and never to "clash" with each other. We seem to just assume they'll 'get along', once they arrive in America, even though we don't ask them to assimilate....this, we feel, should be a 'personal decision'.

In short, nobody REALLY knows how all this will work over the 'long haul', because no nation has ever DONE this, and certainly not for any length of time. But, as Kunstler himself might wonder, "Without claiming to be able to foresee the future, I can't help but ask myself, 'If someone, or a group of people, actually set out to destroy a society and insure its failure and ultimate collapse, how would it LOOK, in the early stages? When the Roman Empire collapsed, did the Roman citizens recognize the early signs?..or is it more probable that it dawned on them slowly, and when it became clear that they were headed for disaster, it was already too late to change"?

It seems to me we're doing a whole LOT of things in the way we live, think, act, and run this country, that we KNOW can't continue for long....but so far, so good.....so let's not worry.....right?
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:04 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,788,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpat View Post
I'm sure a few of you have read James Howard Kunstler's book "The Long Emergency" which came out in 2005.

Amazon.com: The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of Oil, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century: James Howard Kunstler: Books

I just re-read the last few chapters and wonder if what we are seeing today is just the start of what happens after we've reached global peak oil production. Since America is more dependent on oil than just about any nation on earth (we consume 20 million of 83 million barrels produced daily), it seems we could take some of the hardest hits.

So, are we entering what Kunstler called The Long Emergency (which could take decades to unfurl) or is this just a sneak preview of something we won't see for 50 years? Or, is Kunstler wrong altogether?
Regardles of what anyone chooses to believe about greenhouse/climate science indicating warnings, the fact is we are consuming large amounts of imports, which already leaves us vulnerable (as we can see at our gas pumps) on foriegn sources for our basic needs (since our whole lives are revolving around oil infrastrucuture).
Bad idea, IMO.
The more the price of oil goes up, the more economical alternative sources and R&D to advance becomes. The gap keeps closing for parabolic units they installed out west in desert. Their payback time is accelerating faster as a result of higher fuel benchmarks. Same with solar roof panels and wind energy... ad infinitum.
We needed to do this in the 70's, bygones. Pull together now we could significantly reduce our consumption and ween ourselves off over time to a bare minimum.
I guess it takes getting too expensive NOT to do it vs keep playing games with a broken status quo to get people to get together on this one. Immediately works for me.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:10 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,788,537 times
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lookie here what the cross thread history of suppressed inventions just linked
History of New Energy Invention Suppression Cases
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:13 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,878,379 times
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I believe in a roundabout way Bush mentioned peak oil just a few days ago...
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,805,597 times
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We will have to wean our domestic energy companies off excess profit before we can wean ourselves off cheap oil. Oil not sold is profit not made. Leading the country to an economic collapse is OK so long as you can make a profit doing it.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,878,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
We will have to wean our domestic energy companies off excess profit before we can wean ourselves off cheap oil. Oil not sold is profit not made. Leading the country to an economic collapse is OK so long as you can make a profit doing it.
I don't believe there are any domestic energy companies are there?

Aren't most global??
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
719 posts, read 2,618,786 times
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There are many domestic E&P companies-Chesapeake Energy, Devon, Petrohawk, to name a few.
25 billion bbls. recently discovered in N Dakota's Bakken Shale area, which extends into Canada, where another 55 billion bbls. could lie. The Continental Shelf has vast amounts as well, but is off limits due to enviro restrictions.
I'd say, going forward, the biggest oil discovery will have to be conservation.
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