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"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." -Thomas Jefferson, 1814
"If no check can be found to keep the number of standing troops within safe bounds while they are tolerated as far as necessary, abandon them altogether, discipline well the militia and guard the magazines with them. More than magazine guards will be useless if few and dangerous if many. No European nation can ever send against us such a regular army as we need fear, and it is hard if our militia are not equal to those of Canada or Florida." -Thomas Jefferson, 1788
"[The] governor [is] constitutionally the commander of the militia of the State, that is to say, of every man in it able to bear arms." -Thomas Jefferson, 1811
"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important, but especially so at a moment when rights the most essential to our welfare have been violated." -Thomas Jefferson, 1803
"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done." -Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813
"And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes." -Militia Act of 1792
As I said earlier, every able bodied male was the militia...
Thats never been repealed either, althought its been ammended somewhat the fact is that by federal law all men between 18 & 45 are still in the militia. The govt & military elitists would have us believe otherwise tho, but the law is the law.
The weapons mentioned were in every way the assault weapons of the times too & were freely acessable to the people.
Thats never been repealed either, althought its been ammended somewhat the fact is that by federal law all men between 18 & 45 are still in the militia. The govt & military elitists would have us believe otherwise tho, but the law is the law.
The weapons mentioned were in every way the assault weapons of the times too & were freely acessable to the people.
Yep, unorganized militia...lots of people don't realize it. And the flintlock rifle was the sniper gun of its day (the British were shocked by us sniping at officers), the brown bess the assault weapon, and artillery was freely available to anyone who could afford it...many private ship owners owned artillery.
The Second Amendment is extremely ambiguous. Especial when the rules of construction require that,
...every part of the expression ought, if possible, to be allowed some meaning, and be made to conspire to some common end...where the several parts cannot be made to coincide, the less important should give way to the more important part; the means should be sacrificed to the end, rather than the end to the means.
-- James Madison; Federalist No. 40
In Federalists No. 40, James Madison wrested with the problem that the goal of achieving a NATIONAL and ADEQUATE GOVERNMENT couldn't be achieved by means of mere ALTERATIONS and PROVISIONS in the ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION. The means was insufficient to achieve the goal. Therefore, Madison sacrificed the means to the more important goal and expanded the means enough to achieve the goal.
In the case of the Second Amendment, the means to achieving the goal of "a well regulated militia" - "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" -, exceeds, rather than falls short of providing, a means to achieving "a well regulated militia."
The issue is whether the means to achieving "a well regulated militia" should be scaled back, in the name of public safety, to what is necessary to achieve "a well regulated militia."
The issue is whether the means to achieving "a well regulated militia" should be scaled back, in the name of public safety, to what is necessary to achieve "a well regulated militia."
But its very obvious that scaleing back the means to achieving a well regulated militia will also inhibit the ability to form one. Any way you twist it infringing on RKBA is infringing on RKBA & since RKBA is preserved, for whatever reason, infringement is simply unconstitutional.
...scaling back the means to achieving a well regulated militia will also inhibit the ability to form one.
I don't see how scaling back the right to have arms to include only those who are in the well regulated militia would inhibit the militia from being formed.
infringing on RKBA is infringing on RKBA & since RKBA is preserved, for whatever reason, infringement is simply unconstitutional.
I agree. Any infringement on the right of people in the well regulated militia to keep and bear arms is prohibited. However, if it comes down the fifth rule of construction, and a well regulated militia is no longer necessary to secure the state, because we now have a large standing army, the right to keep an bear arms may have terminated with the need for a militia.
Also, since the means (the right of the people to have arms) exceeds what is necessary to achieve the end (the security of a free state), if the ends comes into conflict with the means, then means might have to be sacrificed to the end, according to the two rules of construction Madison applied in Federalist No. 40.
Last edited by FlashTheCash; 09-08-2008 at 10:16 AM..
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,779,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashTheCash
Show me where the Constitution grants the federal government general authority over firearms.
Aside from the fact that this is exactly my point, by your response I am left to assume that you can not give me one good reason?
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