Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In case you didn't notice I said I'm all for taxing the bejesus out of companies who ALREADY are shipping all their jobs overseas. If they want to move shop, good for them. If they want to sell their goods and services to Americans then tax the bejesus out of them for the right to tap into the largest consumer market in the world instead. Save the good tax breaks for companies who bring their jobs to US soil. If they bring the jobs here then they get breaks. If they ship their jobs overseas then screw them and the horse they rode in on.
Oh, that's a great idea! "Tax the bejesus" out of the American companies that have moved elsewhere, that cost will raise the prices of their goods, and then folks will buy even more cheap Chinese and Japanese imports.
You also don't seem to get that American labor is EXPENSIVE and tax breaks won't come close to covering the increase costs to business of paying American workers. Obama mucking around with the health insurance system won't help matters, either. His claim of reducing the cost of premiums for businesses is rubbish.
Did the economy collapse in the 1990's because the taxes were too high and companies were saying "To hell with the U.S." and locating elsewhere?
Uh, Bill Clinton had to RAISE taxes to undo the economic problems he inherited from the first Bush. Obama is insisting he will slash taxes in an economy that is far worse than the one Clinton inherited.
You are pulling a few bad apples out of the hundreds of thousands of business that are out there. We have very few multi-billion dollar business here. What we do have is a whole lot of small businesses. A tax hike on them will kill this economy even more. As for the lower taxes this past 8 years, they were lowered for ALL people not just businesses and the economy until this Fannie Mae crap was doing just fine. So YES it does work. You are basing your judgement on what has happen over the last few weeks. Until then unemployment was low, production was high and people were buying.
The last few weeks has just been the final falling of the house of cards that was built up over the last several years. But prior to that, incomes were flat and prices were way up. This is not something that happened in the last few weeks. It didn't work. Ridiculous $300 and $600 payments to the taxpayers didn't work, cause we borrowed for them and didn't have a way to pay -- so the dollar was weakened with the injection of made-up cash. Tax reductions for big business didn't lower prices, nor stop them from outsourcing overseas -- and yes, unemployment was low, but again incomes were FLAT. Employees were seeing their incomes stay the same while prices went way, way up and their dollar bought less. Again, not at all something that happened in the last 3 weeks.
Now, I understand economics -- and if your costs increase, you have to charge more or take a lower profit. And getting out of this crisis will be hard on everyone, at least for awhile. But clearly the irresponsible policy of tax reductions & stimulus checks from the government with NO INTENTION TO PAY FOR THEM doesn't work. Our dollar gets weak, people on both ends abuse the system (the very rich and the very poor enjoy subsidies on the backs of the middle class now, make no mistake), and eventually the gig is up. We need a responsible tax system, that DOESN'T allow people like Warren Buffet to pay 17% while the employee making $45K pays 30%. It will mean higher taxes for some -- how could it not? How else can we balance the budget, and still pay off the huge war debt we've incurred?
A solid financial plan, even if it includes tax increases, will lead to a healthier economy for all. And it's nothing to be scared of -- just remember the 90's boom, that's where we will be again (hopefully) in a few years.
Oh, that's a great idea! "Tax the bejesus" out of the American companies that have moved elsewhere, that cost will raise the prices of their goods, and then folks will buy even more cheap Chinese and Japanese imports.
You also don't seem to get that American labor is EXPENSIVE and tax breaks won't come close to covering the increase costs to business of paying American workers. Obama mucking around with the health insurance system won't help matters, either. His claim of reducing the cost of premiums for businesses is rubbish.
Good news! Over 370,000 new jobs were created last year. The catch? They pay at poverty level. If "folks" can't afford to buy the products that so called American companies make overseas what difference does it make? Henry Ford reasoned that his best customers were also his employees. He paid them enough to buy the products he sold. He was hated by his fellow business owners. But it worked. He made money. His employees made money thus buying more and stimulating the economy. What a concept. Why don't we try something like that? by the way those "American" companies are not American they are multi-national. They do not owe their allegience to the US.
You mean like H.W. and Clinton weren't going to raise taxes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio
So if we lower their taxes (as we've done the past 8 years), we should get lower prices, higher pay, and more jobs, right?
Oops -- instead we get some incredibly well paid CEOs and directors, buying record-high priced properties in Manhattan and along the FL and CA coasts.
Sorry, doesn't work. And the "give 'em their tax breaks, just consider yer' self lucky they don't FIRE you!!!" argument falls flat too.
Actually, Bush inherited a bad economy resulting from the internet bubble. His tax cuts turned it around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshFresh
Do you have anything to back up this claim?
Experience. H.W. and Clinton both changed their tunes once elected. W is the only president in my lifetime to keep his word on taxes.
However, IMO, the real issue is spending. If Americans stopped having the government blow their money, taxes would be minor. By electing BO, if he expands socialism, the only result will be fighting in two year and four years over who will pay for the expansion... instead of just stopping the fighting and let everyone keep their money.
The last few weeks has just been the final falling of the house of cards that was built up over the last several years. But prior to that, incomes were flat and prices were way up. This is not something that happened in the last few weeks. It didn't work. Ridiculous $300 and $600 payments to the taxpayers didn't work, cause we borrowed for them and didn't have a way to pay -- so the dollar was weakened with the injection of made-up cash. Tax reductions for big business didn't lower prices, nor stop them from outsourcing overseas -- and yes, unemployment was low, but again incomes were FLAT. Employees were seeing their incomes stay the same while prices went way, way up and their dollar bought less. Again, not at all something that happened in the last 3 weeks.
Now, I understand economics -- and if your costs increase, you have to charge more or take a lower profit. And getting out of this crisis will be hard on everyone, at least for awhile. But clearly the irresponsible policy of tax reductions & stimulus checks from the government with NO INTENTION TO PAY FOR THEM doesn't work. Our dollar gets weak, people on both ends abuse the system (the very rich and the very poor enjoy subsidies on the backs of the middle class now, make no mistake), and eventually the gig is up. We need a responsible tax system, that DOESN'T allow people like Warren Buffet to pay 17% while the employee making $45K pays 30%. It will mean higher taxes for some -- how could it not? How else can we balance the budget, and still pay off the huge war debt we've incurred?
A solid financial plan, even if it includes tax increases, will lead to a healthier economy for all. And it's nothing to be scared of -- just remember the 90's boom, that's where we will be again (hopefully) in a few years.
What many forget is 9/11. We took a HUGE hit. Our economy was in the toilet, but we managed to get back on track. We had a lower unemployment rate then under Clinton and a higher GDP.
The housing market is the cause of this. Houses became so over priced that it was only a matter of time before they went back to what they are really worth. That has NOTHING to do with the current administration or McCain's plan. Higher taxes NEVER helps the economy. What we should have done was take down Fannie and Freddie and we should have never ordered banks to give loans to people they KNEW could not pay it back. Obama has ZERO concept of ecomincs. Playing Robin Hood does not work. Let's call his plan what it really is. STEALING!
Good news! Over 370,000 new jobs were created last year. The catch? They pay at poverty level. If "folks" can't afford to buy the products that so called American companies make overseas what difference does it make? Henry Ford reasoned that his best customers were also his employees. He paid them enough to buy the products he sold. He was hated by his fellow business owners. But it worked. He made money. His employees made money thus buying more and stimulating the economy. What a concept. Why don't we try something like that? by the way those "American" companies are not American they are multi-national. They do not owe their allegience to the US.
You're over-generalizing. Here where I live, NO JOBS are minimum-wage. Even McDonald's is paying close to $10 per hour because they can't get enough workers. Wind farms are going up all over this area and wind technology companies are moving in. They're paying good wages.
Texas offers an excellent, business-friendly climate and tax breaks (plus a low cost of living), so the companies are coming. When fiscal conservatism is applied correctly, both businesses and communities thrive.
Uh, Bill Clinton had to RAISE taxes to undo the economic problems he inherited from the first Bush. Obama is insisting he will slash taxes in an economy that is far worse than the one Clinton inherited.
Your point is...?
My point is completely lost on you, apparently.
Do any of you other McCain supporters want to actually back up your claims and answer my question? Someone give me proof that large companies will not be able to handle having taxes back at 1990's levels.
Good news! Over 370,000 new jobs were created last year. The catch? They pay at poverty level. If "folks" can't afford to buy the products that so called American companies make overseas what difference does it make? Henry Ford reasoned that his best customers were also his employees. He paid them enough to buy the products he sold. He was hated by his fellow business owners. But it worked. He made money. His employees made money thus buying more and stimulating the economy. What a concept. Why don't we try something like that? by the way those "American" companies are not American they are multi-national. They do not owe their allegience to the US.
Because the burden of entering business in America is too severe to accommodate people with new ideas. The high burden of entering business forces only the most conservative business models access to the market.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
