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Some people should live in deathly fear of squirrels...
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I'd just like to re frame this whole argument as turnabout is fair play. What if pro life PETA alaskans were marching in the streets of NYC screaming about the wanton abuse and wholesale slaughter of the rat population, and allude to it being a cottage industry for bloodthirsty exterminators in cahoots with Tamminy hall? (Did I mention I'm a native NY'r? You know, them thar elitist know nuthin liberally liberals? hahahahaa). I'm just saying... I don't think either side has been fair to one another in this lame dialog that's gotten so far off point from OP it's utterly absurd.
Animal mgmt/ stewardship includes being accountable for how we've tampered with the eco system to their detriment (and ultimately our own). How we go about prevention and post crappy policy... that's where adults have to make responsible decisions that are very difficult. Just like when fluffy the cat has to be put down by the vet, which is often the closest thing city dwellers ever have to consider in managing animals. I'm not seeing an adult conversation going on here.
Would I have my druthers, wildlife would have sufficient habitat and managed by the real experts... native american indian and eskimo culture melded with/ fortified by science. I think the politics imposed upon BLM the past 30yrs (both sides of the aisle) has been to the detriment of any 4 legged animal, and by and large, the 2 legged kind is notoriously short sighted & narcissistic about their relationship with nature. They need more management than the 4 legged kind.
Greenies- lets not measure farts or get ham handed feeding cows beano. That would actually kill them in case you didn't know. Peta- mortal coil applies to all animals, and eating is not optional for any living creature. We can do better with humane treatment & carelessness with chemistry, but you need to grow up and quit arguing with mortality. Peter pan ideology just doesn't measure up to mother nature's rules. neocons- not everything is, or should ever be, up for sale. Go sit by your dish or I'll start a high couture fashion trend making a weasel coat out of your rump. By your own standard, that would be for sale as well.
I knew this was coming. We lived on an island. No roads, no cars, no other houses, nothing but us for miles....and miles, all over water with no way in or out but by plane or boat. We had every right to let the dog go out on the beach in the morning, or at any other time. My ex was on the porch when it happened; there was always someone around.
He had a much better life than the poor creatures in Cali who live at the end of chains and never know what it's like to run on the beach.
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3) Stop generalizing about "animal rights organizations." Your comments are offensive and insulting. I support animal rights, I don't belong to PETA (mainstream media strikes again), I have no financial investment in fighting for animal rights, and don't have a "cash flow" as a result of my support of it. I'll never understand why human beings are so THREATENED by even the IDEA of animals being treated well and humanely. You remind me of the slave-holders in the 19th century who were just CERTAIN that freedom for slaves would result in destruction of the nation. Or the white men in the early 20th century who were just CERTAIN that votes for women would result in destruction of the nation. And now the anti-animal rights neanderthals: OMG: Take the health and wellbeing of animals seriously and the sky will fall!!! Animals are sentient beings. They have emotions, they feel pain, they deserve respect. Get over it.
Stop being so shrill. Politically I'm a blue dog Democrat of strong Quaker heritage. I'm sure that in the slave holding days, I would have been right there with the rest of my family running the Underground Railroad.
I have seen the alienation that the fringe groups such as PETA bring to their causes and I simply can't call that having consideration for the health and well being of animals. Their tactics in AK were to attack those who had any real voice in the matter, who could have voted to stop the ariel hunting. You personally may not have anything to do with them and that is to your credit; but if you'll notice, I didn't say that you personally were up in AK acting like a fool before the vote last summer.
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4) The problem of the wolves and the salmon is a sustainability problem. If you understood how ecosystems work, you would know that. And unhealthy ecosystems impact adjacent ecosystems. This means, for example, that acreage lost in the Amazon Rainforest affects people in Alaska.
Something tells me you that know less than nothing about the wild salmon runs in Alaska. It's one of the most "sustainable" resources on the planet.
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2) There is no need for aerial hunting of wolves in Alaska. It's also inhumane.
I don't know how many times on this forum that I have typed that I am not in favor of the ariel predator control program. What I've been addressing in these threads is the fallacious nonsense that people who have never even been to Alaska try to impose on it.
My canine companion for the past six years is a rescued wolf hybrid, btw.
And trust me, I know the meaning of the word "ecosystem". I also know that the wolves in AK are in no danger of being "wiped out" the way they almost have been in the -48.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 02-08-2009 at 05:18 PM..
There's no need to wear fur in Alaska. Not in the 21st century. At the same time, Native peoples--such as the Gwich'in in Arctic Village--depend on the Caribou for their livelihood. Caribou are at the center of their culture. They hunt them, but have a deep respect for them. They use every part of the animal: the pelts are used for clothing and boots. I have no problem with such people, who live off nature, but would never THINK of needlessly harming an innocent creature.
How do you feel about the practise of denning, then? It rather leaves me cold, but the Natives practised it long before the great white hunter arrived on the scene. Personally I'd rather see this, if the tribes feel it's necessary, than the ariel hunts.
I have an idea from my vegan daughter who spent a year in Fairbanks in a cabin with a porcupine living underneath, and an outhouse because conventional plumbing would have frozen solid.
She managed to survive the -50 temperatures niicely without wearing leather or fur, and even found enough sustenance to keep her going as a vegan.
If a hundred pound girl who was raised in the South can do it, I'm certain others can as well, if they are intelligent enough.
The key word here is "Fairbanks".
Personally I don't wear fur and never found it necessary. But when I lived out where there were no grocery stores or farmer's markets, I ate much more meat than I do now. I'm a pretty strong believer in the 100 mile diet.
Much of Alaska doesn't have the luxuries that Fairbanks has.
Sounds like your daughter had a great time, though, and that's good.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 02-08-2009 at 05:14 PM..
I'd just like to re frame this whole argument as turnabout is fair play. What if pro life PETA alaskans were marching in the streets of NYC screaming about the wanton abuse and wholesale slaughter of the rat population, and allude to it being a cottage industry for bloodthirsty exterminators in cahoots with Tamminy hall? (Did I mention I'm a native NY'r? You know, them thar elitist know nuthin liberally liberals? hahahahaa). I'm just saying... I don't think either side has been fair to one another in this lame dialog that's gotten so far off point from OP it's utterly absurd.
Animal mgmt/ stewardship includes being accountable for how we've tampered with the eco system to their detriment (and ultimately our own). How we go about prevention and post crappy policy... that's where adults have to make responsible decisions that are very difficult. Just like when fluffy the cat has to be put down by the vet, which is often the closest thing city dwellers ever have to consider in managing animals. I'm not seeing an adult conversation going on here.
Would I have my druthers, wildlife would have sufficient habitat and managed by the real experts... native american indian and eskimo culture melded with/ fortified by science. I think the politics imposed upon BLM the past 30yrs (both sides of the aisle) has been to the detriment of any 4 legged animal, and by and large, the 2 legged kind is notoriously short sighted & narcissistic about their relationship with nature. They need more management than the 4 legged kind.
Greenies- lets not measure farts or get ham handed feeding cows beano. That would actually kill them in case you didn't know. Peta- mortal coil applies to all animals, and eating is not optional for any living creature. We can do better with humane treatment & carelessness with chemistry, but you need to grow up and quit arguing with mortality. Peter pan ideology just doesn't measure up to mother nature's rules. neocons- not everything is, or should ever be, up for sale. Go sit by your dish or I'll start a high couture fashion trend making a weasel coat out of your rump. By your own standard, that would be for sale as well.
I still wonder how all the animals made it on their own so long before humans showed up to "manage" them.
I still wonder how all the animals made it on their own so long before humans showed up to "manage" them.
Just really lucky, I guess.
Well to put real life in perspective for you... Animals in the wild (nature), die a very violent death. Even a field mouse is eaten by birds of prey that impale them with their talons. Wolves kill moose, as do bears. Wolves kill each other, as does bears. Seals kill penguins, sharks kill seals. The list is never ending.
The only animals that die a "Quiet" death is our pets at home. We protect them and give them a stress free environment, feed them and care for them. Many on this post can't understand the difference between the real world of animals and that of our pets since "Fido" is their only contact/reference to animals.
Wild animals come and go in cycles, they have good food, their populations increase, they eat all the food, and then starve to death. The cycles are very violent in the way of nature. By "Managing" the wildlife, we allow them to have less of a chance to over populate an area and keep from starving. Managing preditors doesn't take them out of the loop, nor would we want to, it just makes them a bit less of a threat.
Can't believe it! Palin is asking President Obama for help after telling every one on the campaign trail that Obama is a terrorist. Now she wants his help? Shes is a freak!
Of course you would. You are intellectually inferior.
People shouldn't be bringing their religion into this, we are living in reality. No more sighting your magical "god" as a reason for killing any living thing.
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