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Well if Socialism is the concern from the Republicans... then why weren't they exppressing that concern under Bush when in all effect the banks an insurance was nationalized? Seems Bush pointed us towards those "evil" socialist ways than anyone else. The economy in the shape it is is forcing government intervention, with the alternative being economic collapse maybe Socialism is the better option.
Well if Socialism is the concern from the Republicans... then why weren't they exppressing that concern under Bush when in all effect the banks an insurance was nationalized? Seems Bush pointed us towards those "evil" socialist ways than anyone else. The economy in the shape it is is forcing government intervention, with the alternative being economic collapse maybe Socialism is the better option.
In a speech to Moscow, his only trip there and to Moscow State University
Quote:
But freedom doesn't begin or end with elections. Go to any American town, to take just an example, and you'll see dozens of synagogues and mosques - and you'll see families of every conceivable nationality, worshipping together.
Go into any schoolroom, and there you will see children being taught the Declaration of Independence, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights - among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - that no government can justly deny - the guarantees in their Constitution for freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.
Go into any courtroom and there will preside an independent judge, beholden to no government power. There every defendant has the right to a trial by a jury of his peers, usually 12 men and women - common citizens, they are the ones, the only ones, who weigh the evidence and decide on guilt or innocence. In that court, the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and the word of a policeman, or any official, has no greater legal standing than the word of the accused.
Go to any university campus, and there you'll find an open, sometimes heated discussion of the problems in American society and what can be done to correct them. Turn on the television, and you'll see the legislature conducting the business of government right there before the camera, debating and voting on the legislation that will become the law of the land. March in any demonstrations, and there are many of them - the people's right of assembly is guaranteed in the Constitution and protected by the police.
But freedom is more even than this: Freedom is the right to question, and change the established way of doing things. It is the continuing revolution of the marketplace. It is the understanding that allows us to recognize shortcomings and seek solutions. It is the right to put forth an idea, scoffed at by the experts, and watch it catch fire among the people. It is the right to stick - to dream - to follow your dream, or stick to your conscience, even if you're the only one in a sea of doubters.
Freedom is the recognition that no single person, no single authority of government has a monopoly on the truth, but that every individual life is infinitely precious, that every one of us put on this world has been put there for a reason and has something to offer.
A government elected leaders speeches are public property so posting so much shouldn't be an issue. That's the genius of having dissenting views, it's self correcting. When those are silenced a serious problem brews.
socialism without morals becomes nazi germany. capitalism with out morals becomes nazi america.
Wherever the potential to make big bucks exists, people could give a hoot about morals.
Capitalism can be a useful tool to benefit almost everyone, but we have allowed it to grow into a selfishly powerful, greedy, anti-social monster.
Well if Socialism is the concern from the Republicans... then why weren't they exppressing that concern under Bush when in all effect the banks an insurance was nationalized? Seems Bush pointed us towards those "evil" socialist ways than anyone else. The economy in the shape it is is forcing government intervention, with the alternative being economic collapse maybe Socialism is the better option.
Well if Socialism is the concern from the Republicans... then why weren't they exppressing that concern under Bush when in all effect the banks an insurance was nationalized? Seems Bush pointed us towards those "evil" socialist ways than anyone else. The economy in the shape it is is forcing government intervention, with the alternative being economic collapse maybe Socialism is the better option.
Stealing? So when people buy things with money they earn it's considered stealing on the stores part? The only reason socialism is used is for control of the state and power.
All owners of means steal. They force purchase and labor through duress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
Those states that were mentioned earlier for "quality" of life, the best one still has 50% of the wealth in the top 10% of the population.
Um, no they dont. Most of the countries with the highest standards of living also have the lowest GINI indexes, for instance (the lower means better wealth distribution)
Canada 32.6
France 32.7
Denmark 24.7
Finland 26.9
Germany 28.3
Japan 24.9
Norway 25.8
Sweden 25
They are all in the top 15% of the world for lowest GINI index
Where is the US?
40.8
What are the closest countries to that?
Sri Lanka, Russia, Senegal, Mali, Georgia, Cambodia......what a great class to be in....third world countries and former state run capitalisms that spent decades funneling wealth to the controling classes.
The idea is to create a Utopian society that removes currency from everyday life, and removes individuality. That is why there are no brand names, only one style of house, car, everything. If you had read the book you would know that the eventual goal is to remove the monetary factors that divide normal societies.
I have read the communist manifesto, and I also am aware that Marx never once explained how he would get this to work in an economic sense. The fact is, that its impossible, and that is why its been pretty much discounted by every communist mind since. Almost all modern parties that are based in Marxism almost universally believe in the labor value of product being rewarded at the individual level. You can look that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117
That is why it is called Communism; Working for the collective, NOT yourself. You do not earn money, that is not the purpose of a Communist society. However, pure Communism obviously cannot exist in the purest form, hence why there is a compromise (Socialism).
Socialism is not a "comprimise" at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117
A nation must maintain some kind of international trade. If anything, the Soviets practiced Nationalistic Communism. Instead of devoting yourself to each other, you are devoted to your country. A dangerous ideal that Marx also addressed in his book.
1. A nation is not required to maintain international trade, unless they are resource shy.
2. The Soviets practiced state run capitalism. Profit is not a concept of communism, whether or not labor value is rewarded directly. There is no "ruling class" in communism either.
All owners of means steal. They force purchase and labor through duress.
Um, no they dont. Most of the countries with the highest standards of living also have the lowest GINI indexes, for instance (the lower means better wealth distribution)
Canada 32.6
France 32.7
Denmark 24.7
Finland 26.9
Germany 28.3
Japan 24.9
Norway 25.8
Sweden 25
They are all in the top 15% of the world for lowest GINI index
Where is the US?
40.8
What are the closest countries to that?
Sri Lanka, Russia, Senegal, Mali, Georgia, Cambodia......what a great class to be in....third world countries and former state run capitalism that spent decades funneling wealth to the controlling classes.
Links? Last I looked the GINI numbers are measured by different standards in different countries. The rest of your statement is purely your opinion. You seem to think that if someone has capital that it sells itself. There is nothing stopping me from creating my own dissalination plant at the sea or I could pay someone for their idea. Your opinion seem to be people are too stupid to provide for themselves so others steal and force them, if they want to live, buy their goods. That's ridiculous and pretty much shows the admiration of a communist society in the author of those ideas.
That's the conundrum. The free market is much like the wild. Man doesn't feel real safe in the wild after living in luxury so it seeks a Utopian solution to it's abject miseries. On paper it provides as much. And people that still live in the wild get along just fine in it as they did "in our long climb from the swap to the stars."
It's kinda crude but you can see as man becomes more "accessorized" he also grow weary of troubled times and would do just about anything to reach that point. You'll notice nationalization spread like fire because of how easy it is to sell to the people, especially in economic downturns. March of Democracy
Regulatory functions are necessary for a free market to exist, otherwise it cannibalizes itself and creates a nice cushy monopoly as it's insatiatable instinct always does. This is the nature of the beast. Once lobbyists can purchase the law for profit, the law is no longer serving it's purpose.
Hysteria about nationalization...
The arguments being brought up presume a war on capitalism was declared by the POTUS, an idea planted in their minds by media.
Fact; capitalism is only as good as it's best practices, participation, and faith in it. When entire industries like finance, actuaries, and automotive raise the white flag of surrender to their host country, they have tacitly admitted that they have NOT been practicing capitalism all along. What operated under the cloak of capitalism fell upon it's own sword because it was not practiced. The relationships that were meant to be symbiotic have become parasitic, and the masses are being led to believe (evenly divided) that the oligarchy did it, or the bottom 20% did it (the poor are deliberately dragging the middle class down). The rest of us are the monkies in the middle.
The oligarchy did do it when they're leaders. They did it by purchasing power from the US gov't in a whorish relationship. Petitioning the law should cost $0 for all. Union mgmt then had to 'compete' for representation by purchasing power from the US gov't in a whorish relationship? That union $$ never had a chance. Neither did any taxpayer expecting their best interests were being served in representation. Our govt faciliated this sickness for a century and took responsibility because of it's own failure to regulate properly.
Obama did not invent this system, nor did he facilitate sleight of hand theft that was ongoing for a decade or more (depending on how you measure theft). He's dealing with it directly and all known resources brought to the table. Some of the players on the welfare line are also responsible for the larger mess. The indirect terms of bailouts are open books/ audits. This will sort the wheat from the chaff. Amazing the power of sunlight.
What has all this got to do with individual union members who do work hard and their compensation was loaded on the back (not upfront like CEOs)? What has all this got to do with every employee of Lehman brothers carrying their careers in a cardboard box outside the building because someone up the chain made a fatal error? What has all this got to do with thousands of Ohio employees laid off? Whether anyone wants to see it or not, their pledge of allegience was to their country, not to their corporation. When their corporation falls upon it's sword playing with monopoly money, they're better served finding a real job participating in real capitalism.
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I know some of you hate Reagan but....
). The rest of us are the monkies in the middle. 
