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Debates go on about gun rights, and there are plenty of statistics available that are focused on incidents of guns being used in the commission of crime. Responsible gun owners and most state governments are in agreement that anyone behaving such a way is abusing 2nd amendment rights.
That said, I have a hard time finding statitistics that show crime was arrested or thwarted as a result of ordinary citizens taking action. Can anyone find these statistics and stand them side by side as comparison? How many police reports were written where the criminal or intruder had to abandon their crime? Can we contrast these statistics with those who were passive in the face of violence?
Libertarians usually have these answers, but no replies to this blog... am I to conclude that statistics have one agenda in favor of gun bans, or is there really no merit to the case that an armed citizen does deter crime???
"...88% of the violent crimes which respondents [Rs] reported to NCVS interviewers in 1992 were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively. Because the question about location is asked before the self-protection questions, the typical violent crime victim R has already committed himself to having been victimized in a public place before being asked what he or she did for self-protection. In short, Rs usually could not mention their defensive use of a gun without, in effect, confessing to a crime to a federal government employee."
HA! So... there will be no statistics that are honest. How many police reports are filed by homeowners who interupted crime as it was being committed should be a matter of public record. Don't bother doing the work of scrutinizing with that criteria, we can ignore it ever happens?
I think if people actually knew the crime rates in this country there would be an outcry.
For example, Blacks commit 52% of all homicide but are 13% of the population... Hispanics are 33% of federal prisons but 15% of the population. So basically you have a 60% White population who commits a minority of crime.
On that subject I believe it best that each group police it's own meaningfully. I think if there is so much distrust for LE in a black neighborhood, having every officer there be black would solve much of the nonsense excuses. White males claiming foul over job reassignments... you don't really have a legit job if the public doesn't believe you protect them. Temporary measures like these to educate that public are for the best IMO.
HL, since you invited me here... I think the same stuff as from guncite is what I'd seen most recently. I don't know offhand where to find others. There have been some long discussions on slashdot.org about the topic, tho, and people who've been involved for a very long time came out of the woodwork with all sorts of hard info. If you do a search there chances are you can find the relevant discussions.
I do think that LE should have to live where they work -- be PART of their community, not just external enforcers as is almost uniformly the case in big cities now (and NO ONE likes external enforcers, even if they are supposed to be protecting you). Frex, a majority of Los Angeles cops live in Santa Clarita, because the crime rate is lower there! Hardly any live in their own beat.
As a minor anecdote, I have never committed a gun-related crime, but I have saved both myself and another person by using a gun (two separate incidents), and have scared off would-be perps at least twice more. So my personal score is 4-0 in favour of gun rights.
I would guess that only a TINY percentage of "incidents where a gun saved someone from a crime, large or small" are reported. Only one of mine was, and then mainly because the person who was attacked and beaten (and saved by my intervention, trusty Ruger in hand) wanted to get a restraining order on the perp.
My neighbour in Montana once suffered repeated harrassment by a rogue deputy (I don't recall the details, as it was 35 years ago, other than it was just plain bullying for no reason) ... he finally ran the deputy off his property with a shotgun, end of problem. I assure you THAT one did not get reported by either party!
I think if people actually knew the crime rates in this country there would be an outcry.
For example, Blacks commit 52% of all homicide but are 13% of the population... Hispanics are 33% of federal prisons but 15% of the population. So basically you have a 60% White population who commits a minority of crime.
VERY POOR critical thinking on your part - either that of deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
"Blacks commit 52% of all homicide but are 13% of the population" - This may well be true, but are they more likely to commit the homicides because they are Black - or because they more likely to be POOR? Most crimes are committed by the poor against the poor. If Whites were the lower class in this country chances are pretty good that Whites would be the ones committing most of the crime.
"Hispanics are 33% of federal prisons but 15% of the population" - Well DUHHHHHH!
Federal Prisons are full of those who committed FEDERAL CRIMES - and do you any clue as to what types of crimes are FEDERAL CRIMES? The VAST MAJORITY are drug related - and considering that the vast majority of illegal drugs in this country are imported via Mexico, is an surprise that THAT particular crime category is over-represented by Hispanics?????
Considering that MOST crimes are NOT FEDERAL CRIMES, and that MOST INMATES ARE NOT FEDERAL INMATES what you are doing selectively picking the category of inmate MOST LIKELY to be Hispanic and painting that picture as if it were the most common type of inmate (which is NOT the case at all) If you want to get a TRUE picture of crime, you need to look at the TOTAL prison population NOT JUST THE FEDERAL PRISIONS. Anything else is deceptive and dishonest.
HL, since you invited me here... I think the same stuff as from guncite is what I'd seen most recently. I don't know offhand where to find others. There have been some long discussions on slashdot.org about the topic, tho, and people who've been involved for a very long time came out of the woodwork with all sorts of hard info. If you do a search there chances are you can find the relevant discussions.
I do think that LE should have to live where they work -- be PART of their community, not just external enforcers as is almost uniformly the case in big cities now (and NO ONE likes external enforcers, even if they are supposed to be protecting you). Frex, a majority of Los Angeles cops live in Santa Clarita, because the crime rate is lower there! Hardly any live in their own beat.
As a minor anecdote, I have never committed a gun-related crime, but I have saved both myself and another person by using a gun (two separate incidents), and have scared off would-be perps at least twice more. So my personal score is 4-0 in favour of gun rights.
I would guess that only a TINY percentage of "incidents where a gun saved someone from a crime, large or small" are reported. Only one of mine was, and then mainly because the person who was attacked and beaten (and saved by my intervention, trusty Ruger in hand) wanted to get a restraining order on the perp.
My neighbour in Montana once suffered repeated harrassment by a rogue deputy (I don't recall the details, as it was 35 years ago, other than it was just plain bullying for no reason) ... he finally ran the deputy off his property with a shotgun, end of problem. I assure you THAT one did not get reported by either party!
Thanks for input. The scarcity of statistics that are done by impartial sources (GAO) seems telling to me that the lack of true focus is either intellectual laziness or sponsoring an agenda for anti gun advocates. I'm only interested in the truth being told from either side.
Your bolded portion... this has actually played out quite well in my state of WV. Where hot spots of crime start cropping up (dropping property values significantly) low interest loans and significant tax breaks are offered to law enforcement officers to take on home ownership directly. I currently live cati-corner to a DEA agent in a neighborhood that was formerly dominated by drug dealers. One of the former tennants of the home I bought is in prison for murder. We in effect ran them out of the neighborhood by sticking together as a community. We're very friendly multi cultural peaceful folks who are also well armed. Oddly enough, crime is absent on my city block.
VERY POOR critical thinking on your part - either that of deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
"Blacks commit 52% of all homicide but are 13% of the population" - This may well be true, but are they more likely to commit the homicides because they are Black - or because they more likely to be POOR? Most crimes are committed by the poor against the poor. If Whites were the lower class in this country chances are pretty good that Whites would be the ones committing most of the crime.
Ken
Ken that act of aggression against yourself qualifies you for therapy.
But seriously, I don't think you can blame shoecraft as much as you do when media skewing the statistics to make it read what they wanted are to blame. I very much agree with your bolded portion. Statistics of violence in WV do pan out... poor are violent towards poor, and here that happens to mean more dead white people, and more white people in jail.
Chicken and egg part of it is... are they poor because they're anti social to begin with, or were they made to be anti social by oppressive poverty forces outside them? Loosely paraphrasing the advice from old timers in WV decades ago to their young, their best and brightest, was to leave the state and make a real living. I find that heartbreaking all by itself.
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