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Over and over, pro-waterboarders are trying to make this a partisan issue. Torture is not a partisan issue. It's a human issue. It's a moral issue. It's about whether you think the ends justify the means. America as a society has said that it doesn't. If the police start executing criminals themselves to spare society the expense and trouble of going through the courts, we put the police on trial for murder. There's no such thing as moral short-cutting.
It's a human issue with regard to the torture that the people who died on 9/11 experienced too.
Where was the international community on that one?
Flying in a jet taken over by hijackers to be rammed into the side of a building?
Being inside a building losing oxygen supply only to have 80 floors come crashing down on top of you.
If the moral compass is pointed at the USA for "waterboarding", then the same moral compass should be pointed at Sharia Islamic Law that enslaves women, tortures women and children, condones slavery, JUSTIFIES TERRORISM, and every other 4th century construct that Sharia Law supports.
I couldn't care less if they waterboarded him on the Moon.
Waterboarding GOT THE JOB DONE!
I'm darn sure Nick Berg couldn't care less about the waterboarding - at least NOBODY LOST THEIR HEADS!
Exactly why it is extremely STUPID of obama to release this info !!! But obamas defenders will come up with some lame excuse for his stupidity.
I do not defend the release of these documents and actually wish they NEVER were. However the fact of the matter is we should NEVER be a nation that torture then turn around a point a finger at other nations that do. Its sad and offensive to believe that this was condoned by OUR government.
It's a human issue with regard to the torture that the people who died on 9/11 experienced too.
Where was the international community on that one?
Flying in a jet taken over by hijackers to be rammed into the side of a building?
Being inside a building losing oxygen supply only to have 80 floors come crashing down on top of you.
If the moral compass is pointed at the USA for "waterboarding", then the same moral compass should be pointed at Sharia Islamic Law that enslaves women, tortures women and children, condones slavery, JUSTIFIES TERRORISM, and every other 4th century construct that Sharia Law supports.
I couldn't care less if they waterboarded him on the Moon.
Waterboarding GOT THE JOB DONE!
I'm darn sure Nick Berg couldn't care less about the waterboarding - at least NOBODY LOST THEIR HEADS!
Shame on you for exploiting the dead as a means to torture.
I lost loved ones in the attack and they would never want things like this done in their names.
It's a human issue with regard to the torture that the people who died on 9/11 experienced too.
Where was the international community on that one?
Flying in a jet taken over by hijackers to be rammed into the side of a building?
Being inside a building losing oxygen supply only to have 80 floors come crashing down on top of you.
If the moral compass is pointed at the USA for "waterboarding", then the same moral compass should be pointed at Sharia Islamic Law that enslaves women, tortures women and children, condones slavery, JUSTIFIES TERRORISM, and every other 4th century construct that Sharia Law supports.
I couldn't care less if they waterboarded him on the Moon.
Waterboarding GOT THE JOB DONE!
I'm darn sure Nick Berg couldn't care less about the waterboarding - at least NOBODY LOST THEIR HEADS!
The same moral compass is pointed at the USA and at Sharia Law. I would like the USA to come out better.
And if you justify torturing people because of what happened on 9/11, that's sadism. Torturing people because of past events serves no purpose except to satisfy someone's lust for revenge.
The same moral compass is pointed at the USA and at Sharia Law. I would like the USA to come out better.
And if you justify torturing people because of what happened on 9/11, that's sadism. Torturing people because of past events serves no purpose except to satisfy someone's lust for revenge.
So you give a glass of milk and a chocolate chip cookie to the terrorist during the interrogation?
Warm pima cotton washcloth for their dust covered faces?
The fact is - that torture works.
The USA shouldn't be held to any higher standard than any other nation on earth who practices torture today.
It's warfare! And there's no special consideration given to any American prisoners by any nation that practices terrorism within their walls so why should the USA be held to a higher standard when dealing with nationals from countries that practice, and condone terrorism.
So you give a glass of milk and a chocolate chip cookie to the terrorist during the interrogation?
Warm pima cotton washcloth for their dust covered faces?
The fact is - that torture works.
The USA shouldn't be held to any higher standard than any other nation on earth who practices torture today.
It's warfare! And there's no special consideration given to any American prisoners by any nation that practices terrorism within their walls so why should the USA be held to a higher standard when dealing with nationals from countries that practice, and condone terrorism.
I think NOT!
Please refrain from mischaracterizing my posts. I NEVER said anything about milk and chocolate cookies, or about washcloths. You damage your own arguments when you mischaracterize others' arguments.
I strongly disagree with you that the USA shouldn't be held to any higher standard. I couldn't care less what standards the rest of the world uses to measure this country. I care about what standards I as a citizen use to measure this country. And I want my country to not only be held to higher standards, but to uphold the highest standards. Because I love my country. I do not want her to falter or stumble or fall because she has been attacked. I want her to carry on with the promise of hope that she once was to all people.
It's not all right if we lower ourselves to torture other people. It's not all right if I as a citizen torture another citizen, no matter how I justify it. It's not right if my country tortures citizens of other countries. 9/11 doesn't justify it. The threat to our security doesn't justify it. Torture is on the same level as rape and murder. Go there, and you've abandoned all hope.
Please refrain from mischaracterizing my posts. I NEVER said anything about milk and chocolate cookies, or about washcloths. You damage your own arguments when you mischaracterize others' arguments.
I strongly disagree with you that the USA shouldn't be held to any higher standard. I couldn't care less what standards the rest of the world uses to measure this country. I care about what standards I as a citizen use to measure this country. And I want my country to not only be held to higher standards, but to uphold the highest standards. Because I love my country. I do not want her to falter or stumble or fall because she has been attacked. I want her to carry on with the promise of hope that she once was to all people.
It's not all right if we lower ourselves to torture other people. It's not all right if I as a citizen torture another citizen, no matter how I justify it. It's not right if my country tortures citizens of other countries. 9/11 doesn't justify it. The threat to our security doesn't justify it. Torture is on the same level as rape and murder. Go there, and you've abandoned all hope.
When the the Islamic nations that practice Sharia Law come clean and stop torturing Americans then we should do the same, but not until.
That's like going to a gunfight with a watergun - you're sealing your own fate to death when you do that.
We are having a debate on torture. so what is torture to you? You refuse to answer, so yes, I used hyperbole in an attempt to get and answer from you.
If waterboarding is considered off limits to you, fine, then what is permissible to you.
BTW, can you stop with childish, neenner-neenner-boo-boo name calling, or must you deride, malign and insult your opponents in order to inflate your ego?
Take a look in the mirror buddy.
I see you're addicted to using hyperbole. You really should learn to use actual facts when you argue (I won't refer what you do here as debate, because pouring out hyperbole and sarcasm is not debate), rather than invent things. No one here is defending Amnesty's silly air conditioning issue. Just another straw-man argument, more hyperbole, laced with a bit of tap dancing around ad hominem. If you can't win an argument by using facts, try to smokescreen your way through it by insinuating and attributing all sorts of ridiculous notions to your opponents!
And you are just as abrasive as I am. Probably even more so. So spare me the whinging about my demeanor.
Torture is any action which employs methods of mental, physical (or both) prolonged discomfort, to extract info. I know it kills you bloodthirsty-for-revenge types, but them's the facts, and waterboarding certainly meets this definition. Funny how the guy you all put up as your candidate calls it torture, but yeah, just write him off as a RINO, and his opinion doesn't count anymore. A man who was tortured himself, and served bravely and with dignity and honor, and you all don't listen to him either.
And gosh, if it's not torture, why did the US execute Japanese soldiers for doing it? Why did we court martial a soldier during the Vietnam War for it?
We are not barbarians, and you all would apparently like to lower us to that level.
Standard interrogation procedures are whats ok with me, like the FBI and local police use. And there's about a zillion studies and experts who agree that simple interrogation is vastly more effective than any form of torture.
Is Chinese water torture torture? After all, it's just a slow drip of water. Compared to having water forced into your nose and mouth until you pass out (and believe you are being drowned), I'd think it would be a walk in the park, but it's still labeled as torture.
So go on and play your silly semantic games - some of us see it for what it is - just an excuse to act like barbarians.
You'd think some of you would figure it out, after Bush's lust for revenge plunged us into a recession, but now, no cost is too great, right? As long as we get our hands bloody in return! Someone will pay for this!
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