Miss California Sparks Furor With Gay Marriage Comments on Miss USA Telecast (Putin, abortions)
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Do you find child molesters to be equals? (I'm not attempting to equate homosexuality to pedophilia.)
Do you find conservative Christians who despise homosexual acts to be equals?
Do you find Hitler to have been an equal?
If you ever conceded anything of merit during your posts then I think many more people would take you seriously and many less would have you on 'ignore'. Just my two cents.
No matter how you bring up pedophilia or Hitler in an argument (regarless of how the analogy is used) you instantly lose credibility.
When I used the word "complete", I was saying that I believe he's unable to see gays as full human beings with relationships, feelings, and life experiences that matter. He sees them primarily as sexual deviants. If he were to talk with two guys who had similar lives and similar experiences - one gay and one straight - he would discount the experiences of the gay guy simply because he's gay. The straight guy would be taken more seriously.
Perhaps you're the same way. The difference is that you appear to be much more calm and rational about it. You don't bring up AIDS and talk about body parts every time a gay person makes a comment.
Yeah, all the AIDS rhetoric is silly at best. Then you throw in Hitler and pedophile references and you find yourself having a conversation with someone who barely qualifies as being civil/human.
You know the hardest part about believing in God for me? When I realize that I disagree with Him on different things. Beliefs on homosexuality being one of them. I'm honestly torn on the subject but have to stay on the religious side since that's where my beliefs are. If I were to pick and choose the parts of the Bible that I believe in and the ones I don't then I would be a total hyprcrite and therefore shouldn't follow God at all.
The second hardest part about believing in God is when you see how He has punished people in the past. The are plenty of examples of what we would consider to be brutality. You commit a sin so God kills your sons as punishment. You commit another sin and God puts your eyes out. He talks about stoning people to death if they get caught working on a Sunday. Wow, that all sounds pretty harsh but it's all over the Bible.
Too bad things aren't different but I can't help that part. The only thing I can do is to believe and follow 100% of the Bible as best I can even if it causes me personal turmoil. Now there are plenty of 'idiots' that would agree with my stance against gay marriage but they come across like neanderthals so it's hard for me to stomach as well.
Awwww - its so easy for me to be ignored by you. More so than your other boys. I just want you to know it hurts when you treat me this way but I still can't help but to love you.
Read his work and look at the numbers. Homosexual pedophilia is extremely disproportionate to heterosexual pedophilia. It's all simple numbers.
Still no title of the book you mentioned? Still no source for your quotes about pedophilia? Or about the APA?
You can say whatever you like, but what you are claiming is simply Distortion and LIES. Your theologian Dailey has misrepresented studies, including Freund's. In the cited study, Kurt Freund ACTUALLY wrote in his conclusion: "Findings indicate that homosexual males who preferred mature partners responded no more to male children than heterosexual males who preferred mature partners responded to female children."
Look at the numbers?? How about looking at the studies themselves, not what this non-expert with a religious anti-homosexual agenda claims they say. Look at Kurt Freunds work itself - not what a religious writer claims he says.
Dr Kurt Freund advocated for the decriminalization of homosexuality in his own country of Czechoslovakia. He advocated for the end of conversion therapy as his studies showed it was futile. He argued "that homosexuals needed understanding and acceptance rather than treatment." His work was one of the reasons homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1973.
You still haven't provided a link to your source. Neither have you posted the title of the "book" you are referring to. It can't be a book by Dr Kurt Freund because it wouldn't make sense.
The author of the article from which you posted quotes was Timothy Dailey, and HE has written a book on homosexuality that has a chapter with the same title (Homosexuality and Child Abuse) as his article (the article which can only found on extremist websites now)
Is THIS the book you are referring to, but have been so reluctantto mention?
Dark Obsession is a personal story about the inexorable grip of homosexual lust, the betrayal of wife and family, and ultimately the tragedy of a life cut short. Interwoven into the story is the discussion of homosexuality from a biblical and theological perspective.
If so, I'm not surprised you didn't want to mention the title and author. It gets absolutely panned in reader reviews. When previewing pages, I noticed Dailey mentioned some rather quaint (but debunked) theories about the causes of homosexuality that date back 40 to 60 years from outdated articles by the Catholic Medical Association no less. Not remotely up-to-date, believable, or "scientific"- which is what would be expected from a religious writer with an anti-homosexual agenda and no scientific background or qualifications.
The tragedy and threat of homophobia would be more accurate. Not homosexuality.
Dailey needs to stick to writing about the Bible. Although I'm sure all his views about homosexuality and the Bible are about as shallow and distorted as his article.
If this is the book you are referring to, I could ask, WHY would you be reading about a "personal story about the inexorable grip of homosexual lust"????
You commit a sin so God kills your sons as punishment. You commit another sin and God puts your eyes out. He talks about stoning people to death if they get caught working on a Sunday. Wow, that all sounds pretty harsh but it's all over the Bible.
Oh wow. I never knew any of those things.
And that's the God that most people in this country worship?
Here's what I could concede however. I wouldn't mind at all if gay people were to be legally married with all rights associated with that. However, getting married in a church in front of God is what I object to. If it were just a legal marriage contract without a mention of God then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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The problem I have with this is the arrogance to connect your religion with god. Christianity simple does not have ownership over a belief in a god, or god itself for that matter. If i am gay and get married in a church that marries me, to my god it is just as valid as your hetero marriage in your church to your god. You can CLAIM that your god and interpretation of god usurps my own, but that is just it a claim and interpretation. As a human being, i have every right to my own claims and interpretation - as long as my beliefs and actions don't impact you. This is why, all unions from a legal perspective should only be civil unions. Leave the personal union of your marriage with god, inside your own church - i will with mine and everyone is happy. Nobody is special.
You do NOT understand my point and probably never will. The fact that you find my 'preaching' insulting and offensive makes no difference to me. I'm not taking the 'holier than thou' approach but simply pointing out my beliefs as they pertain to gays and gay marriage.
With the belief in God and heaven comes the belief in hell/Satan so the discussion goes hand in hand.
So by my 'throwing Jesus talk' at you what I'm trying to do is reach out to you since you're apparently in such dire need of it. The fact that it doesn't have an affect on you is YOUR fault and nobody else's. The only way to ever find God is to search for him....and I'm just trying to open your eyes to this so hopefully you'll get there someday.
If my 'antics' aren't something you consider worthy of public debate then you need to take a step back and think about this for a while. It's people like me that are in the voting majority and will be able to dictate public policy for decades to come.
YOUR antics are the ones barely worth discussion since the gay lifestyle is something that is shameful at best and ideally would have no place in this world. You're lucky that you're not in a Muslim nation because they have zero tolerance for gays at all and in most Muslim countries being found gay is punishable by death...not at all something I believe in or would condone but you seem to be taking the freedoms you already have in this country for granted and maybe you should just be happy with what you already have.
I love how you explain your point of view and then at the end continue to talk down to me in a very holier than thou tone..
You are not the majority of people dictating public policy.. I don't know where you get that idea.. If that were the case abortion and homosexuality would still be illegal... You are quick to cite muslim countries and their attrocities, yet you fail to realize that what differentiates america from those countries is our secular beliefs and the few liberal causes to make it happen.
If your point of view had been the majority all these years.. This "christian" nation you like to think of would be doing exactly the same as the muslim countries. What keeps you crazies in check is the secular nature of our constitution... So don't sit here and make it out that christian principles are what sets america apart from Iran or Saudi Arabia.. give me a friggin break.
We'll see how your public policy majority works out for you... I think you're living in la la land.. but that's ok..
Islam and christianity are no different in their mentality.. I don't care what you say.. Not every muslim believes people should be put to death.. you're painting with a wide brush.. You are the one here touting bible principles.. While I think both religions are nonsense and ridiculous.. atleast the muslims impose what's in their texts uniformly and absolutely..
You're sitting here worried about gay marriage because of a couple phrases in the old testiment, yet I don't see you pushing for or promoting laws to outlaw adultery... because afterall THAT actually is one of the ten commandments...
You don't make sense, and you're premis is about as solid as the sands of a beach in florida durring a hurricane... The only thing that gives you confidence is the fact that you think there's a majority out there that agrees with you.. whether there is or isn't.. You're still a mess.. and very much misguided in your analysis of what really drives public policy..
If you can't continue this without referring to jesus and god and homosexuals going to hell and what not.. then I think we're done here..
I've really done a lot of biblical research on this and just can't find any interpretation of the bible (any version of the bible) that says homosexuality is ok. I wish it were because it would be ideal if we could treat everyone as equals but due to my religious beliefs I just can't. I agree that's a very sad thing to say.
I've done a lot of research on homosexuality and the Bible as well. There are many good books on the topic and I've read a couple of them, as well as searched for information sources on the net.
I've come to the conclusion that if the verses currently used to condemn homosexuality are read in context and in the original languages (Hebrew and Koine Greek), not the more recent English translations, then there is NO blanket condemnation of homosexuality.
I've found the vast majority of people are not aware of things like:
the word "homosexual" wasn't even used in an English translation (1 Cor 6) until 1948?
1 Cor 6 used to be used to condemn masturbators not homosexuals.
The early Church fathers never referred to 1 Cor 6 when talking about homosexuality, because it wasn't seen as having anything to do with homosexuality at that time.
Certain practices are mentioned: like male temple prostitution, ritual pagan sex worship of fertility gods in temples, male rape, male sex slaves etc, but not homosexuality in general or committed homosexual relationships.
This Uniting Church site looks at what different biblical scholars have to say about the interpretations and translations of the verses currently used against homosexuality. It is well referenced with a bibliography for further reading:
Considering the often cited biblical texts on homosexuality. (http://fou.uniting.com.au/texts.html - broken link)
If you have anything you'd recommend about interpretation of verses on the topic, I'd be happy to read it.
Read the full verse. Probably the most mischaracterized verse of the Bible.
If you are talking about the story of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery in John 8:1-11, isn't it interesting that the majority of Biblical textual scholars agree that it was added centuries later and was not part of the original gospel.
The problem I have with this is the arrogance to connect your religion with god. Christianity simple does not have ownership over a belief in a god, or god itself for that matter. If i am gay and get married in a church that marries me, to my god it is just as valid as your hetero marriage in your church to your god. You can CLAIM that your god and interpretation of god usurps my own, but that is just it a claim and interpretation. As a human being, i have every right to my own claims and interpretation - as long as my beliefs and actions don't impact you. This is why, all unions from a legal perspective should only be civil unions. Leave the personal union of your marriage with god, inside your own church - i will with mine and everyone is happy. Nobody is special.
Agreed (mostly anyway). Taking religion out of the conversation I would totally agree with you....however, I simply can't do that.
When you say 'my god' you start to run the risk of bending God's word to fit your needs instead of changing your behavior to fit God's rules. Sounds harsh but it's really a type of dictatorship. Sure everyone feels God is a God of love (and that's VERY true) but he's also a God that strikes harsh, brutal punishments on people for breaking His rules.
I think my main difference with what you said is about the word arrogance. You call it a 'claim' and I call it a 'fact'....not because I'm arrogant but because I believe it to be true. Try to convince anyone against any of their core beliefs and they will argue as vehemently as I do. Anyone with a strong, unwavering opinion could easily be considered arrogant if they do not bend any of their beliefs based on any arguments put before them.....you say arrogant and I say strong willed, deeply rooted faith, etc. etc.
Here's a good example...I believe the earth is about 6,000 years old. You believe it's millions of years old. You say you need scientific proof and I do not. You believe I'm wrong and I believe you're wrong. So who is right? Just depends on which one of us you ask. I just don't care to characterize either side as being arrogant but instead I applaud their will to stick to their beliefs in the face on any/all opposition.
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but I still can't help but to love you.
