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Cool! And Obama seems to agree. But when it is Obama suggesting, neo-conservatives get their thingies twisted in a knot.
Quote:
That November, Reagan said of Gorbachev, "There was warmth in his face and his style, not the coldness bordering on hatred I'd seen in most senior Soviet officials I'd met until then."
Reagan knew something most self-labeled conservatives on this board can't even get close to.
The clips of Obama speaking are strategically edited. The edits are clearly visible in at least two spots*. Did you ever wonder what Obama ACTUALLY said that Hannity had edited out of the clip? Of course you didn't, and SURELY Hannity would never edit Obama's words to make him look foolish.
*Edits at the 31 second mark and at the 47 second mark.
What Hannity left out appears below in bold.
From Fox's OWN TRANSCRIPT!:
» Garrett and Obama - the transcript Row 2, Seat 4 « FOXNews.com (http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/07/07/garrett-and-obama-the-transcript/ - broken link)
GARRETT: In your speech this morning, you said the Cold War reached its conclusion because of the actions of many nations over many years. Mr. President, are the Russian sensitivities so fragile that you can't say the Cold War was won? The West won it? And it was led by a combination of Democratic and Republican American presidents?
OBAMA: Well, listen, the -- I think that you just cut out Lech Walesa and the Poles. You just cut out Havel and the Czechs. There were a whole bunch of people throughout Eastern Europe who showed enormous courage.
And I think that it is very important in this part of the world to acknowledge the degree to which people struggled for their own freedom. I'm very proud of the traditions of Democratic and Republican presidents to lift the Iron Curtain.
But, you know, we don't have to diminish other people in order to recognize our role in that history.
None of which would have happened if Reagan hadn't called a "spade a spade" as Lech Walesa put it. There is more than enough documentation from those people that you just pointed out in the transcripts of them giving total credit to Reagan.
Try some introspection and you might be more open minded.
Don't be so open-minded that your brain falls out!
...ok I'm definitely kidding, I saw that on a billboard outside a church once, ha.
After viewing the unedited speech, though Obama could have conceded a little more credit to Reagan, it wasn't a bad move to maintain some humility, given the fact that the Russians know they faced abject defeat, by us and their failed poilcies, and that they are a very proud culture that would be helpful to have back on our side.
That being said, I also agree that Obama is far to apologetic for America's actions, and this little snippit wouldn't even be an issue if he "perked his chest", so to speak, every once and a while.
At what point was oil discovered in Alaska? That's like the French regretting selling Louisiana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
What? That was in reference to the failed negotiations and later Gorbachev conceded on all accounts including SDI. Read the article before you post please.
Here is the sentence:
As Reagan left he told Gorbachev "You did this."
I wish I could diagram a sentence online. Reagan told Gorbachev, "You did this". Who does "you" refer to? It refers to Gorby! Reagan is giving Gorby the credit! Capiche?
Now that it's been pointed out that the clip (and your transcript) has been heavily edited, will you adjust your point of view? Obama clarified that "I'm very proud of the traditions of Democratic and Republican presidents to lift the Iron Curtain."
Your idea of heavy is over exaggerated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Well, some would say that Gorbachev (and Walesa, and Havel) played the pivotal role. They did more, with less, and at a much, much higher personal risk.
Yeah they did. And would they have done any of it if we continued appeasement, containment and detente? No, not at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Reagan, to his credit, didn't mess it up when he easily could have. (It may sound like luke-warm praise, but it isn't. There was thousands of ways that US interference could have caused problems, and it didn't happen. Credit where credit's due.)
It would appear your citing of history has offended the expatriate communists on the forum
The dissension of what they've been taught would screw up and have them questioning everything else they've been taught. I don't totally disagree with other playing key roles, mainly Thatcher and the Pope, but for some of these folks to act like it was going to happen anyways is totally ignoring the facts of history and that evil empire and the policies of the US along with the rest of the world. 10 sovereign states were taken over by Soviet control before Reagan became president. None after that. In fact they got pushed back and liberated.
Quote:
"In the 1950s, Khrushchev predicted: 'We will bury you.' But in the West today, we see a free world that has achieved a level of prosperity and well-being unprecedented in all human history.Moderator cut: copyright violation[/b]
The wall was an obvious symbol of the relations between the east and west. When the people started tearing down the wall Gorbachev had a key role in that he didn't send troops in to save it. The people dissolved that wall all the while knowing they had massive support world wide.
Last edited by katzenfreund; 07-08-2009 at 02:48 PM..
It's amazing to me how ignorant some Americans are on the cold war. Your beloved Reagan and Bush I came in during the final seconds on Soviet rule. The Soviet Union would have collapsed regardless of who was in charge. Afghanistan had a lot to do with that and granted, we did fight a covert war against the Soviets in that beleguered nation ... we assisted the very people who would become our sworn enemies after 9-11 to defeat the so called evil empire. It sure didn't take much from us to do it either, some guns and ammo and training.
At what point was oil discovered in Alaska? That's like the French regretting selling Louisiana.
Here is the sentence:
As Reagan left he told Gorbachev "You did this."
I wish I could diagram a sentence online. Reagan told Gorbachev, "You did this". Who does "you" refer to? It refers to Gorby! Reagan is giving Gorby the credit! Capiche?
For not conceding... and for the failed negotiations as he pointed a finger in his face and shook his head as Reagan would when he was angered. Capiche?
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