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Old 07-31-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,532,927 times
Reputation: 7807

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What a hoot all this blathering about "the media" or "MSM" is to me!

Both ends of the political spectrum, from WorldNetDaily to FreeSpeechTV, think the "media" is out to get them.

All that tells me is that the "media" is doing a pretty good job.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:10 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,127,661 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
that's kind of paranoid.... it's just precise language. It's English, each sentence is correctly structured.
I don't disagree with that...except when the lawmakers themselves complain about needing lawyers to read what they themselves have prescribed, do you really expect the American people to understand? If legislation consisted of a preamble or some sort of addendum with plain text, American's may be more engaged and inclined to read the laws that are written on their behalf. This is precisely what our legislative leaders DON'T want. There is no disputing that.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:17 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,528,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I don't disagree with that...except when the lawmakers themselves complain about needing lawyers to read what they themselves have prescribed, do you really expect the American people to understand? If legislation consisted of a preamble or some sort of addendum with plain text, American's may be more engaged and inclined to read the laws that are written on their behalf. This is precisely what our legislative leaders DON'T want. There is no disputing that.
That's only your opinion. All opinions can be disputed. Unless, of course, you have a quote from a lawmaker indicating such.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:24 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I don't disagree with that...except when the lawmakers themselves complain about needing lawyers to read what they themselves have prescribed, do you really expect the American people to understand? If legislation consisted of a preamble or some sort of addendum with plain text, American's may be more engaged and inclined to read the laws that are written on their behalf. This is precisely what our legislative leaders DON'T want. There is no disputing that.
who cares what OLL want? the text is out there for US to read at thomas.gov and WE can watch proceedings on c-span. Not our fault if they suck at their jobs. Oh, wait.

Legal language has to be as exact as possible...but there probably are honest summaries out there. However I wouldnt trust someone else to pick and choose and interpret --I mean, summarize.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:21 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,127,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
That's only your opinion. All opinions can be disputed. Unless, of course, you have a quote from a lawmaker indicating such.
That's the whole problem. You expect Congress to come right and out and make a statement as blatant as admitting they don't want constituents to read the legislation they write on our behalf. Therefore, if they don't say it, then it must not be true. Are you really that gullible? Do you really put so much trust in your elected leaders that you believe that they would make such a statement out loud? I certainly hope not.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:40 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,528,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
That's the whole problem. You expect Congress to come right and out and make a statement as blatant as admitting they don't want constituents to read the legislation they write on our behalf. Therefore, if they don't say it, then it must not be true. Are you really that gullible? Do you really put so much trust in your elected leaders that you believe that they would make such a statement out loud? I certainly hope not.
Not taking your word - and your word only - makes me gullible? Funny, Aero. I see it exactly the opposite.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,532,927 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
That's the whole problem. You expect Congress to come right and out and make a statement as blatant as admitting they don't want constituents to read the legislation they write on our behalf. Therefore, if they don't say it, then it must not be true. Are you really that gullible? Do you really put so much trust in your elected leaders that you believe that they would make such a statement out loud? I certainly hope not.

Oh, come on! Go to Thomas or the House and Senate websites, and read the bills for yourself, verbatim as proposed, acted upon, enrolled or engrossed (take time to learn the terminologies of democracy).

If you're too lazy for that, read the summary Thomas provides.

There is NO excuse for not knowing.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,972 posts, read 22,157,422 times
Reputation: 13803
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Wapasha, if you rely on the self-serving corporate media for information to take to heart you get what you deserve.

Watch cspan:

"In addition to C-SPAN Radio and the C-SPAN website, C-SPAN is made up of three television channels:
  • C-SPAN features uninterrupted live coverage of the House of Representatives. Also airs Washington Journal live every morning.
  • C-SPAN2 features uninterrupted live coverage of the Senate and airs Book TV on weekends (branded Book TV on C-SPAN2).
  • C-SPAN3 features other uninterrupted live special events and airs a large amount of archived historical programming branded as C-SPAN3 History."
-cspan wikipedia entry

Every version of every bill is always posted in its entirety at thomas.gov, opencongress.gov - plenty more places.

The House's health care bill -- Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

as for who writes the bills, who adds, removes, and why -- dont know if it's possible to find that out.
All well and good, but C-SPAN on the TV does not inform us what is the the bills these clowns are voting on.

The point is, that we can no longer expect the press to live up to their Constitutional protected rights, to help create an informed electorate. Too many newspapers have turned into copy machines, who print out whatever the government entities tell them to print, with no questions, and no curiosity as to what is really going on in Washington. Which explains why so many newspapers and magazines are going out of business.

More and more we rely on blogs, or as you pointed out C-SPAN's web site, or Heritage Foundation, talk show hosts and other sources besides the protected press, to sound the alarms and inform the people of what government is up to. You can argue that some of the information we hear on the radio or on some blogger's web sites is not quite accurate, but at least it draws attention to what government is doing, and the public seeks out these bills and legislation on the internet, and reads them in order to stay informed.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:01 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,127,661 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Oh, come on! Go to Thomas or the House and Senate websites, and read the bills for yourself, verbatim as proposed, acted upon, enrolled or engrossed (take time to learn the terminologies of democracy).

If you're too lazy for that, read the summary Thomas provides.

There is NO excuse for not knowing.
Here we go again. Do you really think that i'm referring to myself? Three degrees and many years in the cockpit ensure that I understand legal and technical terminology quite well. I am speaking on the macro level. We both know that most Americans 1) Don't take the time to read new legislation, and 2) Wouldn't undertand most of it if they did.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:06 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
Reputation: 18304
Persoanlly;I am 62. The media actually expresses about every view point on a issue you could thoink of now days with so many channels;so no they pretty much cover every view unlike say before the 60's;which IMO is good.
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