Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Christians should declare war on the secular commercial Christmas, return to a religious meaningful holiday, don't show up at the stores to spend money.
What! You mean stop acting like Pagans and Heathens? Never! It's not da 'merkin way, whot wud da foundin fodders sey....get me my gun Mable, ima gonna go hunt me some of dim gawdless libralls
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 10-11-2009 at 11:30 AM..
Because, in the Bible, Homosexuality is called an "Abomination"
First of all, not everyone subscribes to what is in the bible. Many ppl feel it is an allegory or just a book of fairy tales. What about the Koran, Muslims believe what is in that just as much as Christians believe in the bible. You probably don't take the Koran literally, just as many don't take the bible literally hence "homosexuality being an abomination" is only an opinion. Most ppl don't want to have a bigoted opinion interjected into EVERY topic. This is a topic on Christmas, NOT sexual preference. I just wish we could stop belaboring over homosexuality. I am only adding to this right now, so I'm done. Christmas is NOT under attack, celebrate however you wish off gov't property and be thankful we live in a country where you can.
When you walk on public property, are you owned by everyone and therefore can have your speech regulated by everyone?
In this case, yes. Your religious rights are individual rights and you have no individual right to use public property for anything. You have the right to express your individual religious opinion within areas that have been designated as public forums, such as public parks and sidewalks. On other forms of public property your rights are not necessarily greater than they would be on someone else's private property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander
I think you have your concepts mixed up. You can not prohibit the free exercise of religion on public property.
Absolutely wrong. There are circumstances under which it is permitted. Under others, it can be disallowed entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander
If I put up a cross on public property, you have no say over it.
We can argue the point while you serve out your sentence for vandalism.
This very topic is about how Christianity is oppressed by misuse of the Constitution...
And to have any reasonable point to make within such a topic you would very much need to improve your knowledge and understanidng of the Constitution. You have so far been completely off base in every point you have tried to make.
There are many examples, from all over the country, where a group - for example, a church, wants to put up the Nativity scene in a public park - or at the court house or ....... They will pay for it. Yet, they are told they cannot put it up because of the "religion" thing.
In many areas, schools can no longer have "Christmas Pageants".
And so on.
I could care less if someone puts up displays on private property.
Religious items do not belong on Government property - there should not be a nativity on the grounds of a courthouse or town hall.
Religious items do not belong in public schools. If you want your child to participate in a religious pageant, then send them to a religious private school.
The local K of C puts up lanterns on the public streets at Christmas time with their own funds - fine w/ that. If they were putting up little Jesus statues - I would not be.
You can't go changing what words mean in order to make them mean what you want them to mean. Even if you don't like the way that some Christians celebrate Christmas, and even if you believe it's become too commercial a holiday and that even many Christians have lost sight of some of the meaning of the holiday, CHRISTMAS still means the celebration of the birth of Christ.
It isn't my job to judge the various ways in which Christmas is celebrated nor whether the season has been over-commercialized. It isn't your job either. Neither is it your job to redefine the word Christmas nor to purge any definition that excludes the fantasies of your own faith. By the definition you have in mind, only a small minority celebrates Christmas in this country, and the felicitation "Merry Christmas" becomes little more than some sort of secret handshake to be exchanged among and between this small group of "insiders" only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan
I think most Christians don't mind that you aren't celebrating Christmas, but are having a good time celebrating whatever it is that you want to celebrate in that day.
Well gee, that's extremely kind of them. I will still be excluding such pompous and arrogant people from my Christmas card list, however...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan
What is it that you use to determine that someone is celebrating Christmas?
There is no definitive standard for celebrating Christmas any more than there is for Labor Day or the Fourth of July. Or do you have special definitions to pass on for those holidays as well???
I assumed we were talking about a place where the display had been allowed. If a Christmas tree is allowed to be erected, certainly it seems reasonable that other symbols celebrating other religious holidays be allowed as well. My question was regarding the right of the government to restrict which decorations, or images, would be allowed in that instance.
Try to keep in mind as many have not been able to that the guideline generally stated is that the government may not permit even a reasonable inference of a preference for any one religion or for religion over non-religion.
If we are talking about a state entity erecting a seasonal holiday display at its discretion on its property, its obligation is to frustrate reasonable inferences of any preference. Decorated pine trees certainly have a history as secular seasonal decorations, yet they are strongly associated today with a specific holiday officially celebrated by only one religion. In order to avoid reasonable inference, an inclusion of other holiday symbols in a display would be advisable and the inclusion of any overtly religious symbols would be discouraged. The power of the government entity to control the content of the display is not disputed.
There may be local ordinances mandating such seperation. There may be laws in some states that do the same. But there is not, to my knowledge & understanding, any such statement in the Constitution of the U.S. Someone (I don't believe it was you) said that displaying a religious symbol on public property is specifically prohibited by the US Constitution. I'd like to see that constitutional prohibition, or an acknowledgment that it doesn't exist.
The argument comes from some letters Thomas Jefferson wrote...admittedly, not the Constitution. You must remember the history of the past 100 years before the Constitution was drafted. Countries with a state religion, the wars between the Catholics and Protestants--people came here for the freedom to practice as they wished, without a government calling them subversives or heathens. It didn't call for an inquisition.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
