inaccurate darker side of Columbus...being taught in the classroom (soldiers, weapons)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I looked at these links, and I have read similar over the years. I have also read that Columbus was "a man of his time", and if he hadn't sailed to and colonized the Americas, someone else would have.

I do not think he should be personally vilified. With 20/20 hindsight, he should have done some things differently.

I agree he was a man of his time. What's wrong with teaching the reality of that time in school?

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by burdell

I agree he was a man of his time. What's wrong with teaching the reality of that time in school?

I'm still trying to figure out how truth is synonymous with vilification.

[Bluefly]

In SOME ways, though, Columbus was pretty much like any public school graduate of today, 2009. Like most of these graduates, Columbus couldn't find Florida on a map.

Haha - that's a great line.

I, for one, was a little bitter at my education indoctrinating me with mythological interpretations of historical figures. I don't understand what any of this has to do with the left or the right, but the way the founding fathers and figures like Columbus were portrayed in my education seems, in retrospect, more like a North Korean indoctrination school. They were flawless gods. I'd have much rather known of these people as humans living in their time, without judgment.

I can accept that Jefferson owned slaves in the same way many things we do today, like using oil, will have to be accepted as just part of our primitive culture when future generations mythologize our time.

I, personally, don't understand why history should not reflect our latest knowledge. There's nothing subversive about it. It's factual. I suspect many who adhere to conservative ideologies find this threatening is because there is a fundamental need to perceive the past as an era of greatness that need only be upheld - thus conserved. To undermine that mythology with facts of failings undermines the entire premise of their worldview.

In contrast, progressives are constantly looking forward to a better time. They are far more comfortable pointing out past failings (from Columbus to Obama's statements of admission, not apologies). So, it's logical that they would have no problem accepting the failings of past figures alongside their greatness and continue building on what they created.

That's just the way I see it and I think a lot of people underestimate the capacity of children.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

I don't understand what any of this has to do with the left or the right, but the way the founding fathers and figures like Columbus were portrayed in my education seems, in retrospect, more like a North Korean indoctrination school.

THANK YOU, thank you, thank you!

[burdell]

To me the most truthful part of the article cited in the OP is:

"Every hero is somebody else's villain," said Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, a scholar and author of several books related to Columbus, including "1492: The Year the World Began."

"Heroism and villainy are just two sides of the same coin."


I see nothing wrong with teaching children the fact that every coin does indeed have at least two sides.

[tonyandclaire89]

I see nothing wrong with teaching children the fact that every coin does indeed have at least two sides.

Burdell...your absolutely right...however...the deep down hatred from you and the left of the european settlers who made this nation great... is just so obvious...whether you want to admit it or not...

[burdell]

Originally Posted by tonyandclaire89

Burdell...your absolutely right...however...the deep down hatred from you and the left of the european settlers who made this nation great... is just so obvious...whether you want to admit it or not...

The only deep down hatred I have of anything/anyone, with the possible exception of Richard Nixon, exists only in your imagination and self-delusion. I learned a long time ago hate only saps energy and eats away at the hater and has NO affect on the hated, IF you're lucky you may learn the same someday.

But I do think people are wrong when they teach children a sugar-coated view of life as if there exists only US and THEM in the world.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by sickofnyc

What is it about the torture and mistreatment of human beings that doesn't bother your sensibilities?

Listen- stone age people will be conquered by modern civilazations. It is the way of the world. No where on the planet have stone age civilizations been left alone by more advanced civilizations. They are conquered.

Take home message-

Conquest of lesser civilizations will always occur by more advanced people. If you don't want to be conquered, don't whine and claim to be a victim of naughty behavior. Promote academics, ingenuity, and research, and these bad things will not happen to your nation. If you are weak and primitive, you will be defeated.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

Exhibit A, attesting to the fact that teaching real facts about American history didn't get taught even in the upper grades.



Oh, so you have to be a statesmen, "captain of industry" of military leader to have contributed to the development of the country... couldn't be one of 5,000 Americans of African descent who served in the Continental Army? Couldn't be a major abolitionist like Fredrick Douglas, a poet like Phillis Wheatley (1752-1784 a twoffer by the way), surveyors and astronomer Benjamin Banneker who ultimately laid out the design for the nation's capital. Of course those millions of slave didn't do anything but sit on the back steps of the plantation eating massa's fried chicken and dancing **** all day long.

"God will continue to look for the children but the fools will have to look out for themselves."

Gil Scott-Heron

Political conditions have changed and these groups have greater participation in the government, military,academics and industry. Thier contribution to the US now, due to these conditions, is greater than in the past.

[/quote]


Wow. The nation and our lives were changed by the miniscule contributions of these people. Let's face it- white males built this country from a political, academic, military, and buisness standpoint. As noted above, minorities and women contributed very little, if anything, to the development of the nation. They did not have the economic or political power to do so. Sorry- facts are facts and revisionists cannot change them.

[reconmark]

"..minorities and women contributed very little, if anything.."

Fits right into the vein of this post..historical inaccuratcies and omission of the true facts of history.

To many folks here, the issue of mis-treatment of native people MUST NOT be recognized nor included in the historical portrayal of Columbus and other notable historic figures.

He did what he did good or bad, he was human and flawed, he carried the pride, prejudice, and bias of many other Europeans who came into contact with native populations.

Teach history, the good and bad, give people the true price (for some) and contribution(for others) of exploration.