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SWB Under most circumstances I would not bother to respond to a poll like this. By that I mean a polling question whose answer is a far gone conclusion. There are many such questions on here that IMHO don't need to be asked. At times I think some people just like to see themselves type.
Most of us here are rational people (now now,be nice and thus we know that we are not substantially affected. But that's not why traditional straight folks object...and I suspect you know that. So again...why ask such a question.
First off I must point out that in your question you described the relationship as "same-sex marriages". In a follow up comment you referred to "same-sex civil unions ". As someone said words have meanings and although YOU may see that as a distinction without a difference for many others the two expressions are not interchangable. You of course recognize that most people define a marriage as a union between a man and a women; period, no qualifiers needed. That's what it is and that's what it is like it or not. Furthermore, I doubt that anyone cares if you're satisfied with that brief definition. After all..it's not about you. Society knows that the grass is green and the sky is blue and try as you may people know what the color green is and it ain't about the sky. Legalistic and biblical discussions aren't required. It's really very simple. The word married has meant what it means for a long time and you can hold your breath and turn blue if you like but it won't change a thing.
On the other hand I think there are much fewer objections to same-sex civil unions. I think we'd agree on that as well. But that I think leads to a much better question than the one being asked here and the answers would reveal so much more. Please feel free to do a polling or start a new thread..I for one find the whole thing tiresome.
Given that if a "same-sex civil union" and a heterosexual "marriage" result in exactly the same rights and benifits then why does the gay community preferr the term marriage instead of civil union. ?
I think an honest introspective answer to that would help the "gay" community understand why the "strait' communtiy objects to the attempt to hijack the word marriage. if you don't get it..then it's YOU that don't get it.
I dont understand why so many straight people are so concerned about gay marriage.
If gay marriages are causing their marriage to go down-hill maybe they are spending way too much time worrying gay marriage and not enough time saving their own marriage.
People can talk about gay marriage bringing down the integrity of marriage but the fact of the matter is a marriage license a piece of paper from the state or county.
I am pro-choice though on whether churches wed same-sex couples or not they should every right to deny marriages they dont believe in but they shouldnt try to use their influence and bigotry to deny certain a piece of paper from the county clerks office.
What don't I get? This nation has legalized cigarette smoking, which is a habit that has been proven to kill smokers and nonsmokers alike through respiratory ailments and cancer. This nation has legalized alcohol, a beverage that many abuse and use to kill non-drinkers in drunk-driving related car accidents. This nation has legalized abortion, which is the intentional destruction of a fetus. This nation has legalized cell phone usage, even though they increase danger behind the wheel and are potentially destroying the honey bee. Same-sex relationships harm nobody at all, yet they're causing more of an uproar than the other four combined?
You know what? I don't appreciate that I can't go to most local restaurants without leaving with clothing that reeks of an ashtray so that others can force their "choice" on me. I don't appreciate the fact that my father was nearly killed in a head-on collision with a drunk driver in the 1990s so that someone else could force their "choice" to get drunk on my father. I don't appreciate that so many unwed teen mothers make the decision to end the lives of their unborn children when so many couples who are unable to conceive (including gay couples) would love to adopt them and give them a bright future. Nevertheless, all of these actions are supported by society while something seemingly HARMLESS like same-sex marriage is a decided "no-no." I truly think a lot of right-wingers need to focus on the more pressing issues facing our nation besides "Adam and Steve." Since when is it appropriate to deny equal rights to someone when you have no good reason to back it up besides "God wouldn't want it that way?" Do you think God would likewise approve of Pagan, Wiccan, and Atheist couples marrying solely to obtain the same legal and financial benefits that Christian couples are afforded? Do you think God would likewise approve of people like Britney Spears making a mockery of the institution with a 22-hour drive-thru wedding while same-sex couple who have been together for YEARS don't have that same opportunity?
Like it or not my generation is poised to ensure that EQUAL RIGHTS are secured to ALL people in this nation of ours. There once was a time when blacks and whites marrying each other was "taboo" as well, and with the exception of a few lower-class redneck strongholds, such an act is no longer a controversial issue. The same will eventually occur for same-sex couples as well as Generation Y takes over and the Baby Boomers die off. Why are we only delaying the inevitable, especially when, as the poll indicates, the majority of people in the states that were affected in my poll noticed no change in their quality-of-lives? I'm still just not understanding your arguments against same-sex marriage other than "Man and woman. Period. End of discussion" or "It wasn't meant to be that way." Who are you to decide the true definition of the word "marriage," especially when it has been skewed so drastically by so many straight people who make a mockery of the institution.
I dont understand why so many straight people are so concerned about gay marriage.
They're obviously oblivious to the more pressing issues facing the United States, including but not limited to:
Never-Ending War With a Nation With No Proven Ties to 9/11
Gas Prices That Have Risen by over 100% in Recent Years
AIDS, Cancer, Autism, MLS, ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc.
Escalating Crime Rates
Illegal Immigration
Rising Rates of Substance Abuse, Teen Pregnancy
School Shooting Rampages, Gun Control
Urban Sprawl, Air Pollution Resulting from Associated CO2 Emissions
Declining Housing Market
Shall I Continue?
Why is it that out of all of the "blemishes" facing our nation, same-sex marriage has become the omnipotent one? If people were more concerned with the REAL ills plaguing our society, then perhaps we'd solve more of our problems?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen
If gay marriages are causing their marriage to go down-hill maybe they are spending way too much time worrying gay marriage and not enough time saving their own marriage.
Agreed. The only difference that is occurring is that John and John Doe, who have lived in the same home down the street from their family for 20 years, now each have a ring on their fingers and a piece of paper that entitles them to the same legal, medical, and financial benefits afforded to heterosexual couples. They are in no way, shape, or form capable of "converting their children to the Dark Side" or whatever other baloney they expel from their mouths. Trust me, if I grew up in a morally-conservative Republican household and turned out gay, then what makes you think that a child growing up near a more liberal environment can't turn out to be straight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen
People can talk about gay marriage bringing down the integrity of marriage but the fact of the matter is a marriage license a piece of paper from the state or county.
Agreed. I wonder at times if these heterosexual married couples are simply envious of the fact that so many other same-sex couples are renewing their love for each other with vows, rings, etc. while their own marriage is in shambles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen
I am pro-choice though on whether churches wed same-sex couples or not they should every right to deny marriages they dont believe in but they shouldnt try to use their influence and bigotry to deny certain a piece of paper from the county clerks office.
All I ever hear in opposition from the right-wingers is "legislating from the bench" in regards to this issue. How about the other way around? If, supposedly, all men are created equally, then why are heterosexual males given PREFERENCE in this nation in so many aspects, including being able to wed? I have STILL not received an answer from any of these "moral watchdogs" explaining to me why it's okay for non-Christian couples to tie the knot in a supposed "Christian institution" en masse, yet when a gay Christian couple wants to do the same, they are denied. Why are you people DODGING that question? Explain to me how Wiccan and Atheist straight couples are capable of being given what you all consider to be some sort of "Christian rite of passage" while fellow Christians are not? I don't like to toot my own horn, but I most certainly WILL in that respect until I hear of a good, solid, LEGALLY-SATISFYING reason to determine why non-Christian straight couples are somehow superior than Christian homosexual couples. If not, then you must admit that marriage has NOTHING to do with religion, and any basis for denying gays the right to wed is based not on religious convictions but rather in full-blown homophobia and hatred.
I live in South Jersey, and have a vacation home in Vermont - both states that now have the civil unions for same-sex couples.
What people have to realize is that people who love each other will form unions no matter what is legislated. They will live together, raise their children (often from their previous heterosexual relationship) and live their lives just like everyone else. There are same-sex couples in our area who have been together for YEARS. The only difference (and it is an important one) is now they have the same LEGAL rights as other couples in a legally recognized union.
No one who I know judged them before, and no one I know cares to deny them this, and I live in a pretty conservative area. Live and let live.
All I've been hearing is SPECULATION, mostly from Southerners, about how same-sex marriage will detrimentally affect them, their families, and their communities if it is approved, so I was just wondering if these claims had any merit to them or if they are just homophobic?
You reminded me about how black men were lusting after white women myth that got Emmett Till killed. It seems irrational but they believed it for the same reason that they believe this. I can't figure out the reason, though. I guess it has something to do with the pastor and the church in both cases?
I've been to civil unions in VT. I was impressed with the JoP, a female judge, who conducted the service. It was sensitive, sensible and solemn. The two friends had been together for many years, and are still together, in a very rewarding and committed relationship.
I have two female friends in RI, who were part of a legal battle to have their relationship legalized, and they won. The case has been well documented, recorded and was all over the media for weeks. They have two children, both are women are prominent in their community, and they are thriving as a couple--as are the children.
However, it is clear to me that for religious reasons, or probably biblical reasons, many Christians are against marriage between same-sex partners. It is their belief, their strong belief, that marriage other than between a pro-creating male and female, is sinful.
Asking repeatedly for reasons, probably doesn't do much but create more discourse but no resolution. I don't personally understand why it has become such a hot-button topic, but it has, and if I guess, I suspect it is because it is about sex, marriage, religious beliefs and gets a great deal of press.
Does it affect me? Absolutely not! Does it hurt anyone? Probably not, but it seems to offend some people's sense of moral rectitude, and that is not easy to change.
Am I to understand that only TWO people voted that same-sex marriage and/or civil unions in their home states has caused their quality-of-life to deteriorate? Yes? Why then does this remain such a hot-button issue that overshadows the War on Terror, abortion, and other controversies that result in loss of life?
They're obviously oblivious to the more pressing issues facing the United States, including but not limited to:
Never-Ending War With a Nation With No Proven Ties to 9/11
Gas Prices That Have Risen by over 100% in Recent Years
AIDS, Cancer, Autism, MLS, ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc.
Escalating Crime Rates
Illegal Immigration
Rising Rates of Substance Abuse, Teen Pregnancy
School Shooting Rampages, Gun Control
Urban Sprawl, Air Pollution Resulting from Associated CO2 Emissions
Declining Housing Market
Shall I Continue?
Why is it that out of all of the "blemishes" facing our nation, same-sex marriage has become the omnipotent one? If people were more concerned with the REAL ills plaguing our society, then perhaps we'd solve more of our problems?
Agreed. The only difference that is occurring is that John and John Doe, who have lived in the same home down the street from their family for 20 years, now each have a ring on their fingers and a piece of paper that entitles them to the same legal, medical, and financial benefits afforded to heterosexual couples. They are in no way, shape, or form capable of "converting their children to the Dark Side" or whatever other baloney they expel from their mouths. Trust me, if I grew up in a morally-conservative Republican household and turned out gay, then what makes you think that a child growing up near a more liberal environment can't turn out to be straight?
Agreed. I wonder at times if these heterosexual married couples are simply envious of the fact that so many other same-sex couples are renewing their love for each other with vows, rings, etc. while their own marriage is in shambles.
All I ever hear in opposition from the right-wingers is "legislating from the bench" in regards to this issue. How about the other way around? If, supposedly, all men are created equally, then why are heterosexual males given PREFERENCE in this nation in so many aspects, including being able to wed? I have STILL not received an answer from any of these "moral watchdogs" explaining to me why it's okay for non-Christian couples to tie the knot in a supposed "Christian institution" en masse, yet when a gay Christian couple wants to do the same, they are denied. Why are you people DODGING that question? Explain to me how Wiccan and Atheist straight couples are capable of being given what you all consider to be some sort of "Christian rite of passage" while fellow Christians are not? I don't like to toot my own horn, but I most certainly WILL in that respect until I hear of a good, solid, LEGALLY-SATISFYING reason to determine why non-Christian straight couples are somehow superior than Christian homosexual couples. If not, then you must admit that marriage has NOTHING to do with religion, and any basis for denying gays the right to wed is based not on religious convictions but rather in full-blown homophobia and hatred.
So: Right-Wingers should be concentrating on the country while Left-Wingers concentrate on gay marriage ???
SWB, hadn't you heard that it was the gays, pagans and liberals that caused 911???
wow, talk about scapegoating...
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and thus we know that we are not substantially affected. But that's not why traditional straight folks object...and I suspect you know that. So again...why ask such a question.
