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I see words like "should", and "recommended", and "suggested." I don't see anything in the article saying anything like "mandates."
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Originally Posted by wdavid002
And it will cause the insurance companies now not to cover mammograms for women under the age of 50.
Yes, it's indeed possible - even likely for some insurance companies - to cut back their coverage. And that's TODAY, right? We're not talking about something happening specifically in the event that health care reform is passed, right?
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Originally Posted by wdavid002
It also creates a conflict with the American Cancer Society who still recommends mammograms for women under the age of 50. Where are all the liberal feminists now??? I guess its far more important to agree with Obama than to protect the lives of women.
Agree with Obama? You mean he served on the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force? Man, that guy gets around!
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Originally Posted by wdavid002
This is the beginning of the health care rationing that we will be dealing with.
Wake up, dude. Health care is already rationed ... when a person is denied coverage due to an existing condition, or when a person's prescription drug coverage exceeds a certain amount, or many other instances.
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Originally Posted by wdavid002
You can deny all you want, but those of us who work in health care ....
Okie-dokie. Your appeal to emotion is fallacious. Why wait 'till 40? Tell that to those who died in their 30s. Waiting until 40 is ridiculous.
That everyone you know was under 50 is irrelevant. Lousy argument.
The point which you do not care about I guess is that breast cancer when found EARLY is one of the most treatable forms of cancer. It pays to screen early.
Your argument is a lousy one because there is a test that can find it early but you think it is ok to remove that test which can cause more woman to die because they will NOT find it early. Great logic there.
I don't know how this will effect insurance companies, Obamacare or any health care bill but EVERY woman I have known that had breast cancer had it BEFORE she was 40. Had they followed these guidelines they would most likely be dead. Not good guidelines as far as I am concerned.
Those women were already outside the established guidelines, being under 40. There will always be exceptions as your example shows.
And, as your example shows, whatever screening methodology allowed their cancer to be found and diagnosed would still be available to women who fall outside the age guidelines.
The point which you do not care about I guess is that breast cancer when found EARLY is one of the most treatable forms of cancer. It pays to screen early.
Your argument is a lousy one because there is a test that can find it early but you think it is ok to remove that test which can cause more woman to die because they will NOT find it early. Great logic there.
Uh...no. My argument has absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote above. I'm not even making an argument. I'm pointing out the fallacy of your argument, which seems to have changed from the original.
Let's recap.
You: "All the women I've known, therefore..."
Me: "You don't know all women, which is why studies are conducted."
Now, if you're going to stick with that argument, then I can be assured you'll also agree with these arguments:
Everyone I've known who got laid off from his job was a lazy bum. Therefore, company layoffs involve only lazy bums.
Everyone I've known who killed with a handgun was a criminal. Therefore, if we outlaw hanguns, criminals won't be able to kill people.
Everyone I've known who drinks and drives is left-handed. Therefore, right-handed people don't drink and drive.
The new arguments you present above are reasonable, but "everybody I've known" is fallacious.
Anyone who believes this is incredibly naive about how science works.
Since you're obviously so educated in the field of medical science, why don't you show us point-by-point where the study fails.
The way science works?
This "study" that contradicts everything that has gone before it convieniently points out that "early and frequent screenings often lead to false alarms and unneeded biopsies, without substantially improving women's odds of survival."
This study is all about the way politics works and fits in with a new government agenda driven by cost containment over patient survival.
The point which you do not care about I guess is that breast cancer when found EARLY is one of the most treatable forms of cancer. It pays to screen early.
Your argument is a lousy one because there is a test that can find it early but you think it is ok to remove that test which can cause more woman to die because they will NOT find it early. Great logic there.
One kind of the death panels is looking if screening is cutting costs, compared to not doing anything and how many will die due to breast cancer...if the amount of people with breast cancer is too high they will allow mammograms earlier, so far it seems to be proven that having woman get breast cancer cost less than have everybody get a screening...
So basically our health care plan we paid for over here is going to be redued to socialist health care we had in Europe.
Dentist costs were also paid for under socialist health care but cost were cut every couple of years...At first the government was stating that a healthy set of teeth would make a person's health much better so it was worth it...That meant 3 times a yr to have your teeth cleaned, etc...later when it was costing too much it was cut back to 2 times a yr....Now it is only 1 time a yr...which cut the costs in half again....so your health care is only calculated by the governments money, not by what is in your best interest...
Maybe now some people will understand why foreigners come over here for health care and not the other way around....
This "study" that contradicts everything that has gone before it convieniently points out that "early and frequent screenings often lead to false alarms and unneeded biopsies, without substantially improving women's odds of survival."
This study is all about the way politics works and fits in with a new government agenda driven by cost containment over patient survival.
America, meet your new death panel.
What political motivation is involved in false alarms and unneeded biopsies? Are you claiming the data is fallacious? What exactly are you talking about?
I had an ulcer in my mouth. The specialist prescribed treatment, and no biopsy was performed. Now, you're a scientist studying this data. Tell me, from this data, who did my specialist vote for in the 2008 presidential election?
One kind of the death panels is looking if screening is cutting costs, compared to not doing anything and how many will die due to breast cancer...if the amount of people with breast cancer is too high they will allow mammograms earlier, so far it seems to be proven that having woman get breast cancer cost less than have everybody get a screening...
So basically our health care plan we paid for over here is going to be redued to socialist health care we had in Europe.
This is hilarious.
Why stop with your so-so conclusion. Why not extend your logic to determine Armageddon!
Quote:
Dentist costs were also paid for under socialist health care but cost were cut every couple of years...At first the government was stating that a healthy set of teeth would make a person's health much better so it was worth it...That meant 3 times a yr to have your teeth cleaned, etc...later when it was costing too much it was cut back to 2 times a yr....Now it is only 1 time a yr...which cut the costs in half again....so your health care is only calculated by the governments money, not by what is in your best interest...
Current dental insurance plans are woefully lacking, and yes, they are calculated by insurance companies' money, not what's in your best interest.
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Maybe now some people will understand why foreigners come over here for health care and not the other way around....
Patently false. I used to drive an elderly couple to Tijuana every three months because they can't afford medication here.
Have you ever heard of people buying meds from Canada? Or medical tourism? Here, have a look. Educate yourself. medical tourism - Google Search
Why stop with your so-so conclusion. Why not extend your logic to determine Armageddon!
Current dental insurance plans are woefully lacking, and yes, they are calculated by insurance companies' money, not what's in your best interest.
Patently false. I used to drive an elderly couple to Tijuana every three months because they can't afford medication here.
Have you ever heard of people buying meds from Canada? Or medical tourism? Here, have a look. Educate yourself. medical tourism - Google Search
Meds are different...I get some meds from Europe as well...but for treatment...hardly any one is going for heart surgery to another country...only for plastic surgery people like to go to places where doctor's perform it in their bedroom and we all have seen the results...I mean major medical treatments...
Even Farah Fawcett who went to germany for her cancer treatment after the doctor in the US had told her what was exactly going on, she wanted to believe that alternative treatment was going to save her...which is totally fine and she ahd the money to do so, but in the end the doctor's in the USA were proven to be right...sadly enough!
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