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Sarene: You've made several comments in this thread saying that "most liberals hate" Jewish people. As a liberal with many liberal friends I resent your generalization. It simply isn't true nor fair to make a blanket statement like that. I think you have liberals mixed up with the KKK who freely admit to being in the 'hate business.'
I have? Please, point them out.
You keep attributing comments and statements to me that I have never made - you might want to invest in a remedial reading course.
No, Sanrene has liberals mixed up with the far leftists.
I never said anything of the kind in this thread.
It is mostly the far leftists who sympathize with terrorists and despise Israel. Some liberals are included in that, but mostly far lefties, of the radical kind.
Name me one cessation of hostilities/cease fire, without a clear winner and loser, that has resulted in peace between the two.
It is mostly the far leftists who sympathize with terrorists and despise Israel. Some liberals are included in that, but mostly far lefties, of the radical kind.
I agree and I stand corrected.
The point is that we must be careful to distinguish between liberals and far leftists because they are two very different groups. To throw them together is a severe disservice to, and defamation of, liberals. Far leftists are a very different animal as you can see from the two who have repeatedly posted in this thread, and they very accurately fit your description regarding Israel.
I have? Please, point them out.
You keep attributing comments and statements to me that I have never made - you might want to invest in a remedial reading course.
I guess I deserve your insult about the remedial reading course since I did mistake you for saying the following statement by hawkeye. He had quoted a long passage written by you and I must not have looked up high enough when I was looking to see whose post I was reading. I'll be more careful to use the quote feature in the future when referring to another person's post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
Saggy, are you anti-semitic, like most liberals, and just hate the Jews? If so, you are in good company with other extremist tyrants who opposed and tried to eliminate the Jews. It is good to know that you are supporting the side of evil, as that is what I would expect of a far left wing liberal, who seem to be very comfortable in that role.
But you did say this to which I disagree......
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
It is mostly the far leftists who sympathize with terrorists and despise Israel. Some liberals are included in that, but mostly far lefties, of the radical kind.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 11-30-2009 at 06:54 PM..
You miss the entire point. You ignore, or don't understand, the root cause of this conflict. For all these decades, the Arabs, and certainly that includes the Palestinian Arabs, have waged war and terrorism on Israel and Israelis under the banner that Israel has no right to exist. It's not a matter of Israeli policy, but Israeli existence. Their wars started long, long before Israel took control of the w. bank and Gaza as a result of the 1967 attempt to destroy Israel. If the IDF were to throw all its weapons into the Mediterranean tomorrow, there would not be peace. There would be a bloodbath.
1967? Why are you talking about 1967? Why aren't you talking about 1947 or 1927? This conflict will not end until Israel wants it to. So long as they continue to see use of their wealth and military capability to crush the Palestinians as their surest path to security, there will be no settlement. Once they are willing to look at security via other means, there will be hope for progress. Ask yourself what form the dispute could actually take other than the one it has. The Palestinians hold one card. Their only choice is to play it. The Isrealis hold all the rest of the cards. They have a choice of which card to play, and they have particularly recently chosen very poorly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow
You say both sides have a right to exist, but unfortunately your Arab and Palestinian friends disagree. On the day that they do agree, there will be peace treaties. Witness Egypt and Jordan.
Arafat with Fatah and the PLO walked away from that position in 1988 in conjunction with UNSCR 242. What did it get them?
[quote=saganista;11836026]So long as they continue to see use of their wealth and military capability to crush the Palestinians as their surest path to security, there will be no settlement. Once they are willing to look at security via other means, there will be hope for progress. Ask yourself what form the dispute could actually take other than the one it has. The Palestinians hold one card. Their only choice is to play it. The Isrealis hold all the rest of the cards. They have a choice of which card to play, and they have particularly recently chosen very poorly.
[quote]
What "other means" do you suggest Israel consider to ensure security?
When the Palestinians sign a treaty, they promptly break it. What do you see as a solution?
He has not made the world anew, history did not bend to his will, the Indians and Pakistanis have been told that the matter of Kashmir is theirs to resolve, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the same intractable clash of two irreconcilable nationalisms, and the theocrats in Iran have not "unclenched their fist," nor have they abandoned their nuclear quest.
Polls; Favor/unfavorable;
Palestinian 15%/82%
Turkey 14%/69%
Egypt 27%/70%
Quote:
Pakistan, a place of great consequence for American power, our standing has deteriorated: The unfavorables rose from 63% in 2008 to 68% this year.
1967? Why are you talking about 1967? Why aren't you talking about 1947 or 1927? This conflict will not end until Israel wants it to. So long as they continue to see use of their wealth and military capability to crush the Palestinians as their surest path to security, there will be no settlement. Once they are willing to look at security via other means, there will be hope for progress. Ask yourself what form the dispute could actually take other than the one it has. The Palestinians hold one card. Their only choice is to play it. The Isrealis hold all the rest of the cards. They have a choice of which card to play, and they have particularly recently chosen very poorly.
Arafat with Fatah and the PLO walked away from that position in 1988 in conjunction with UNSCR 242. What did it get them?
What did it get them? They were offered a Palestinian state on 95% of the land they claimed they wanted. And the other 5% would have come from Israel itself. They would have gotten E. Jerusalem. Arafat rejected it in 2000 and launched a war. The offer was made again by Olmert as recently as late last year. Abbas rejected it. What more do you expect Israel to offer???!
Look, there are two groups of Palestinians: those like Abbas's Fatah, who demand nothing less than "the right of return" (which is why Arafat rejected the offer in 2000), a move they know would turn Israel into the 24th Arab state, and those like Hamas, who want to continue the 80-year assault until Israel is destroyed, no matter how many generations that may take.
It's interesting that you referred to the year 1947. In that year, the UN resolved that there would be a Palestinian Jewish state (Israel) and a Palestinian Arab state. The Arabs immediately rejected the resolution, and seven Arab armies invaded the infant state of Israel with the expressed intention of destroying it. Most Arabs, including the Palestinian Arabs, maintain the same attitude today. THAT is the root cause of this conflict.
I've said this before. You don't address it, you just ignore it. I think we've gone around in circles enough.
Sanrene, you make a good point about Obama's weak and disjointed policies, their failures, and the negative Muslim reaction. The Muslims perceive him as weak. Regimes like Iran's and Syria's will take advantage of that. BTW, Fouad Ajami has been a brilliant analyst and commentator on the mideast for many years. I have great respect for any analysis of his.
Last edited by lamontnow; 12-01-2009 at 09:10 AM..
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