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I hope you don't handle your personal finances this way. What you are proposing is using one credit card to pay off another one, while never paying off either principle or interest, racking up ever increasing debt. Lots of people tried that in their personal life...and ended up bankrupt. Why would you expect better results when it's done on a larger scale?
People don't issue t-bonds supported by the full faith and credit of the US to cover personal obligations--we don't have that capacity. The government, however, issues more bonds all the time to cover bond expenses. The day that investors worldwide stop buying the safest investment in the US is the day we may have a problem. That is not today or tomorrow.
They would want the invest to go to zero????? Sure buddy!
Oh now you are on to all entitlements???
I thought the subject was Social Security??
Your scare tactics don't work there so you go off on a tangent.
Admittedly, the thread is about Social Security. But, the three big entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare) are all run by the same entity and thus all related. The federal government has to find a way to pay for all of them in the coming years and if said government runs out of money, has to raise interest rates substantially, has to deal with runaway inflation, or has to raise taxes substantially in order to pay for it all then this will cause serious problems for the future prosperity of our nation.
Private Institutions sell bonds all the time. The government's (unethical) borrowing against the bonds is not illegal. AS conservatives point out all the time, government is not private enterprise. The debt can be satisfied as needed by issuing more bonds.
And getting deeper into debt. That is very fiscally responsible now isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn
The reason it is not a Ponzi scheme is b/c the beneficiaries are all getting real benefits.
A Ponzi scheme provides every investor with full benefits....except the last ones.
People don't issue t-bonds supported by the full faith and credit of the US to cover personal obligations--we don't have that capacity. The government, however, issues more bonds all the time to cover bond expenses. The day that investors worldwide stop buying the safest investment in the US is the day we may have a problem. That is not today or tomorrow.
The government has always done it that way.
Well we have a problem,foreigners bought only 640 billion of our Tbonds this year and we ran up 1.8 trillion.Who bought the rest?Look at the FR balance sheets,they bought up most of the rest.Do you think foreign countries are that stupid to keep letting us run up a tab.LMAO
Exactly. The government has to get the money from somewhere in order to pay back those bonds. It will tax me or it will borrow more money. Also, I will not get full benefits anyway. But, I tell you what. I am willing to deal with getting doubled-taxed and not receiving full benefits if the old people give up Medicare in its current incarnation. That program is what will destroy this nation.
Where are you getting your facts supporting your contention that you will not see SS benefits or that it will destroy this nation of ours? That's quite a leap.
That link will supply you with the facts you need. The SSA even stood up to Bush's pressure to crow about privatization.
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Unthinkable? Every fiat currency in the history of mankind has decayed and been devalued. Take our massive federal debt and factor in the copious amounts of debt that is being added to it by the current administration and we face a stark fiscal future that our children will be saddled with.
And getting deeper into debt. That is very fiscally responsible now isn't it?
Most progress is predicated on debt.
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A Ponzi scheme provides every investor with full benefits....except the last ones.
Are you sure about that?
What is a Ponzi scheme?
A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity. http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm]"Ponzi Schemes
Ponzi Schemes are by definition criminal enterprises set out to defraud people. What is the defrauding part of SS benefits?
Well we have a problem,foreigners bought only 640 billion of our Tbonds this year and we ran up 1.8 trillion.Who bought the rest?Look at the FR balance sheets,they bought up most of the rest.Do you think foreign countries are that stupid to keep letting us run up a tab.LMAO
Who ran up 1.8 trillion debt this year? Social Security?
Where are you getting your facts supporting your contention that you will not see SS benefits or that it will destroy this nation of ours? That's quite a leap.
I will be double-taxed on S.S. and I will only see 75% of promised benefits. That speaks for itself. Also, I never said that SS would destroy the country. I said that Medicare in its current incarnation would.
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn
Comparatively speaking, our debt ain't that bad.
I disagree. It is gargantuan, constitutes a large amount of our GDP, and we are facing stiff economic competition from the Euro, China, and other rising nations. We produce enough wealth to service our debt at the moment, but can we continue doing so? Spain used to be loaded with wealth from the New World, yet they decayed and are now a second-rate power. The same could happen to us and our ability to deal with our creditors.
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn
Medicare and Medicaid are not SS.
But, as I have already explained they are related. They are all run by the federal government and it has to find a way to pay for them all. Can America deal with Medicare and Medicaid taking up 15% of our GDP? Can we deal with a huge interest payment on our debt? And with all of this going on can we keep Social Security afloat all while not taxing our citizenry to death to pay for it all?
Ponzi Schemes are by definition criminal enterprises set out to defraud people. What is the defrauding part of SS benefits?
I disagree. A Ponzi scheme is any financial setup that promises people certain things, has them pay into it, provides some benefit, and ends up falling apart in the end. Only giving out 75% of benefits to the later beneficiaries is not a complete falling apart...but it still does suck.
I will be double-taxed on S.S. and I will only see 75% of promised benefits. That speaks for itself. Also, I never said that SS would destroy the country. I said that Medicare in its current incarnation would.
Sorry, I see what you mean now.
You don't know that you'll be 'double taxed' on SS. You don't know that you'll receive only 75% of your promised benefit.
The actuarial projections show that, under the most favorable scenario of assumptions, you'll get 100% of your benefit. The most negative scenario shows a shortfall in 2039. That could be fixed by good economic performance, tinkering with the benefit formula, a benefit freeze or a tax hike...or as I pointed out, no action at all.
You are making sweeping statements with little basis.
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I disagree. It is gargantuan, constitutes a large amount of our GDP, and we are facing stiff economic competition from the Euro, China, and other rising nations. We produce enough wealth to service our debt at the moment, but can we continue doing so? Spain used to be loaded with wealth from the New World, yet they decayed and are now a second-rate power. The same could happen to us and our ability to deal with our creditors.
I just showed you a government site that shows our debt as a percentage of GDP is among the lowest in the world.
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But, as I have already explained they are related. They are all run by the federal government and it has to find a way to pay for them all. Can America deal with Medicare and Medicaid taking up 15% of our GDP? Can we deal with a huge interest payment on our debt? And with all of this going on can we keep Social Security afloat all while not taxing our citizenry to death to pay for it all?
Yes. We are, relatively speaking, a lightly taxed country. All your statements seem to convey hyperbole. 'taxed to death'...
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