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Old 02-10-2010, 01:40 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,733,266 times
Reputation: 1364

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Funny, my sources tell a somewhat different story. And this is from one of the previous administration's own advisor.
Your faulting George Bush's ownership society and blaming the housing market and financial market collapse on that is way off the mark. First, the ownership society originated with Thomas Jefferson. He understood that property owners were sovereign in the face of government power and it was his goal to make all Americans property owners. That was the rationale behind the Louisiana Purchase. He anticipated that a growing population would need more land if all were to be farmers and property owners.

Secondly, there is no inherent contradiction between the ownership society and responsible lending to further that goal. Bush wanted as many people as possible to own their own homes--but not at the expense of the stability of the financial system. That is why his administration pushed so hard to regulate the GSE's. He wasn't willing to gamble the financial health of the country to achieve his goal. On the other hand, Barney Frank, for example, advised "rolling the dice" a while longer before clamping down on the unsustainable risk the GSE's posed. Unfortunately the dice came up craps and the American public lost. Funny, though, Frank and Schumer and Dodd are still there and doing just fine, thank you.
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Bush wanted as many people as possible to own their own homes--but not at the expense of the stability of the financial system. That is why his administration pushed so hard to regulate the GSE's.
Bush (and GOP congress) wanted to regulate GSEs so they can give a free ride to private financial institutions, at the expense of anything that is government run. This is why I don't want to put people in government who want to prove government is bad.

And would you also like to blame FM/FM for relaxing lending leverage to financial institutions (up from 12:1 to 40:1)?
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,948,403 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker View Post
THIS is why Bush engineered the Recession we're in... Eat it conservatives. You're willing to drag the entire country down...
hahaahahhahaahaha

That's funny - I just scrolled through the responses and noticed that I'm not the only one who could only laugh.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:29 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,585,253 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker View Post
Starve the beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Eat it conservatives.
You're willing to drag the entire country down just to win political points?
Sad------> People like that deserve to be shown the door! Saudi Arabia, I hear, is very conservative and religious!
The collapse of the real estate markets and financial institutions are what caused the recession. Tax cuts are not what brought down the financial markets. Even the source you quoted doesn't suggest that.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Bush wanted as many people as possible to own their own homes--but not at the expense of the stability of the financial system. That is why his administration pushed so hard to regulate the GSE's. He wasn't willing to gamble the financial health of the country to achieve his goal. On the other hand, Barney Frank, for example, advised "rolling the dice" a while longer before clamping down on the unsustainable risk the GSE's posed. Unfortunately the dice came up craps and the American public lost. Funny, though, Frank and Schumer and Dodd are still there and doing just fine, thank you.
Exactly!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfGWxqsKFmY
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:13 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,044,731 times
Reputation: 1916
When you take this little gem of information from one of the most prestigious economic minds of our time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
And are you claiming to be an economic authority on the level of these guys?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the Man Himself, Mr. Alan:
"The tough talk reflected a widening sense that some of Greenspan's apparent successes in managing the economy from 1987 to 2006 were in fact illusory, that they came at the cost of building the biggest credit bubble in world history."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He noted that the immense and largely unregulated business of spreading financial risk widely, through the use of exotic financial instruments called derivatives, had gotten out of control and had added to the havoc of today’s crisis. As far back as 1994, Mr. Greenspan staunchly and successfully opposed tougher regulation on derivatives.

Many Republican lawmakers on the oversight committee tried to blame the mortgage meltdown on the unchecked growth of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant government-sponsored mortgage-finance companies that were placed in a government conservatorship last month. Republicans have argued that Democratic lawmakers blocked measures to reform the companies.

But Mr. Greenspan, who was first appointed by President Ronald Reagan, placed far more blame on the Wall Street companies that bundled subprime mortgages into pools and sold them as mortgage-backed securities. Global demand for the securities was so high, he said, that Wall Street companies pressured lenders to lower their standards and produce more “paper
.”
"
Along with the number crunching from the non partisan CBO:

"The story of today’s deficits starts in January 2001, as President Bill Clinton was leaving office. The Congressional Budget Office estimated then that the government would run an average annual surplus of more than $800 billion a year from 2009 to 2012. Today, the government is expected to run a $1.2 trillion annual deficit in those years.

You can think of that roughly $2 trillion swing as coming from four broad categories: the business cycle, President George W. Bush’s policies, policies from the Bush years that are scheduled to expire but that Mr. Obama has chosen to extend, and new policies proposed by Mr. Obama."


And when you consider under whose watch the housing bubble burst and who had a direct hand in it from my last post here.

Its pretty clear how we got into this mess we are in. Unless you happen to be a denizen of the Glen Beck parallel universe.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:58 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
When you take this little gem of information from one of the most prestigious economic minds of our time...
The facts remain...

OFHEO states that Freddie had sold $1,381.9 billion in MBS and Fannie $2,118.9 billion. By adding the mortgages retained by Fannie and Freddie (either as loans or MBS) to the MBS that they sold and guarantee to others, OFHEO calculates a total "book of business" for Fannie and Freddie of $4,934.4 billion as of the end of 2007.
http://www.fhfa.gov/webfiles/2097/OFHEOReporttoCongress2008.pdf

Nearly $5 trillion in loans, many of which were packaged into MBS's, which include millions of intentionally misrepresented loans, sold throughout the market to investors, banks, etc., that had no idea the loans/MBS's were far more risky than the GSE's claimed. Tell me which Wall Street firm was repackaging and holding/selling $5 Trillion in loans...

Loans defaulted in unprecedented numbers, and the insurance/credit default swaps, etc., were unable to absorb the losses because, as previously noted, the GSE's misrepresentation had set the stage for losses that would be outside all prior experience, unbeknownst to all but those involved in the fraud at Fannie and Freddie.
Origins of an American Kleptocracy | zero hedge
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:27 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,044,731 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The facts remain...
That you are in denial. Do you think you have more credibility than what former Bush advisors and Treasury Secretary, Eliot Spitzer and 50 other state attorneys along with The Man:Alan Greenspan themselves say? Are you that delusional? Wait, don't answer that.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:34 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,108,083 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
That you are in denial. Do you think you have more credibility than what former Bush advisors and Treasury Secretary, Eliot Spitzer and 50 other state attorneys along with The Man:Alan Greenspan themselves say? Are you that delusional? Wait, don't answer that.
Do you want to backup this with ANY data, or should we just take your word for it?
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:53 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
That you are in denial. Do you think you have more credibility than what former Bush advisors and Treasury Secretary, Eliot Spitzer and 50 other state attorneys along with The Man:Alan Greenspan themselves say? Are you that delusional? Wait, don't answer that.
I posted factual data. You posted 'opinion.' Since when do facts not trump unsupported opinion?
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