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"President Barack Obama unveiled his plan for a sweeping overhaul of the nation’s school system Saturday, proposing changes he says would shift emphasis from teaching to the test to a more nuanced assessment of judging school and student progress.
Under Obama’s plan, schools would have more leeway to test students on a broader range of subjects and the law would seek to “paint a fuller picture” of a school’s needs by looking at attendance, school climate, and course completion."
On the flip side, the proposal talks about more rigorous teacher evaluations, which is a good thing. But if attendance and school climate are the metrics, one may not need a teaching certification to accomplish that. Maybe just an attendance sheet and a nuanced thermometer.
There is also a proposal for the Federal government to take over defining English and Mathematics curriculum for all states. Maybe a separate proposal ?
I'm opposed to any such "reform" effort that evaluates teachers because I believe the problem is not their fault, even teachers who perform poorly.
The reason for my belief here is that teachers do what they've been taught, for the most part, when they were at their respective schools of education. The curricula for a education degree is watered-down, relies on numerous theoretical approaches to teaching that often cannot be applied in every classroom, and instructs aspiring teachers to handle the bureaucracy of public education. What they don't get enough of is the subject areas in which they will teach.
Until the schools of ed can be reformed, standards raised, methods altered, it's futile to punish teachers for doing what they do because it's what they've been taught, for the most part.
Further, educational success of the student relies on the personal responsibility of the parents. They must instill in their children a love of learning, and must augment what kids are exposed to in the classroom. I've spoken with numerous teachers who feared that many of their students didn't have access to a single book in the household (and many of these households didn't have access to the internet either). Lastly, a growing number of parents over the past 40 years or so rely on their local school as a platform for athletics--so that their little Johnny or Suzy can learn to run, tackle, dunk, knock-down the three, set up a cross (soccer), or swing a bat. Several surveys not yet published point to these trends in which parents believe the most value that comes out the school is athletic instruction. Many of these same parents believe that success in athletics will lead to college scholarships when only a fraction of athletes receive these.
I knew a German exchange student recently. As a senior in high school he said he thought the whole idea of his American school having a very competitive basketball team was neat (and the kid was really good on the court--as well as in the classroom--his teachers said he challenged them). The kid said that in Germany athletics is completely separate from schools, and may be one reason why German students score a slam-dunk in the classroom over their American counterparts.
. . . German students score a slam-dunk in the classroom over their American counterparts.
Please provide some documentation for the above statement. Don't forget, in trying to link high school sports to student performance, correlation does not equal causation.
I'm opposed to any such "reform" effort that evaluates teachers because I believe the problem is not their fault, even teachers who perform poorly.
I would question this line of reasoning. It is what we see very often where the easy way out is always blame someone else. No one is ever held accountable. If something goes wrong, then sue someone. It just cannot be my fault.
We all must be accountable. Otherwise we live in chaos.
I would question this line of reasoning. It is what we see very often where the easy way out is always blame someone else. No one is ever held accountable. If something goes wrong, then sue someone. It just cannot be my fault.
We all must be accountable. Otherwise we live in chaos.
I addressed accountability in the portion of my post that you redacted in the quotation. Accountability, ultimately, lies with the parents, for some of the very reasons I mentioned in my earlier response.
I agree teachers should be accountable, but only if they have learned the proper tools, which I believe they are not getting at schools of edu that train teachers. How can any teacher instruct students when the teacher's undergraduate degree(s) include 40 or so hours of coursework related to fuzzy theoretical and psychological approaches (all of which change rather frequently) to learning? The remainder of their 20 or so hours counted toward a degree are in their respective area of concentration. So how can a teacher adequately instruct students in a subject such as English (or worse, biology) when they probably took only a handful of these classes, much of which were core classes that most freshman and sophomores take as prerequisites?
Reform must begin with the schools of education, not the teachers who are mere products of these flawed institutions. Once a higher standard of teacher education is implemented, only then, can full accountability measures directed at teachers be undertaken.
To the other responder, I know correlation is not causation. The German exchange student anecdote was intended just as that--an anecdote. This student entered an American high school as a senior and was, academically speaking, leaps and bounds ahead of the other 500 or so seniors at his school--even ahead of some of his teachers based on their comments about his intellect.
There's a wide range of comparative data on foreign students compared to their American counterparts. I'll look for some links and post these later.
I would question this line of reasoning. It is what we see very often where the easy way out is always blame someone else. No one is ever held accountable. If something goes wrong, then sue someone. It just cannot be my fault.
We all must be accountable. Otherwise we live in chaos.
All of us. That means all parties are responsible for the development of the next generation.
If the kids don't pass the test because the teacher doesn't get through all teh material who should be held accountable?
If the teacher can't get through the lesson because there's one teacher to 30-35 students and 3 are misbehaving and won't listen and 3 are behind because they didn't do the homework who should be held accountable?
If the kids go home and flip on the tv because mom and dad don't make them do their homework, then they fall behind who should be held accountable?
If mom and dad can't be home because they're out making money to pay the rent and get food and they can't find other/better work who should be help accountable?
No doubt that there are incompetent teachers that don't belong in a classroom. I'm betting though, for every one teacher that shouldn't be in a classroom, there's another teacher that should be, but left because they realized that being the scapegoat for a multifaceted problem, beyond their control is not worth the meager salary that they're paid. I left for that reason. One poorly behaved kid not held accountable by parents at home can waste hours of class time, and the expectations on teachers only increase each year. Fix all sources of the problem. Not just one.
All of us. That means all parties are responsible for the development of the next generation.
If the kids don't pass the test because the teacher doesn't get through all teh material who should be held accountable?
If the teacher can't get through the lesson because there's one teacher to 30-35 students and 3 are misbehaving and won't listen and 3 are behind because they didn't do the homework who should be held accountable?
If the kids go home and flip on the tv because mom and dad don't make them do their homework, then they fall behind who should be held accountable?
If mom and dad can't be home because they're out making money to pay the rent and get food and they can't find other/better work who should be help accountable?
No doubt that there are incompetent teachers that don't belong in a classroom. I'm betting though, for every one teacher that shouldn't be in a classroom, there's another teacher that should be, but left because they realized that being the scapegoat for a multifaceted problem, beyond their control is not worth the meager salary that they're paid. I left for that reason. One poorly behaved kid not held accountable by parents at home can waste hours of class time, and the expectations on teachers only increase each year. Fix all sources of the problem. Not just one.
Report cards go home several times during the school year.
Progress reports also go home.
Most teachers keep the grades online and parents can access.
There's mid terms in middle and high.
With all the above, you're going to tell me that at the end of the year if a kid fails then it's the teacher's fault ?
Do you have kids in school ? How involved are the parents ?
How's the turnout on Open House night ?
Parent involvement is pathetic. Most parents are more concerned with getting little Johnnie to football practice or soccer practice and care little about their academics.
My neighbor is a middle school math teacher in public school and the stories she could tell about lack of parent involvement and concern for their grades.
Report cards go home several times during the school year.
Progress reports also go home.
Most teachers keep the grades online and parents can access.
There's mid terms in middle and high.
With all the above, you're going to tell me that at the end of the year if a kid fails then it's the teacher's fault ?
Do you have kids in school ? How involved are the parents ?
How's the turnout on Open House night ?
Parent involvement is pathetic. Most parents are more concerned with getting little Johnnie to football practice or soccer practice and care little about their academics.
My neighbor is a middle school math teacher in public school and the stories she could tell about lack of parent involvement and concern for their grades.
Complaining about parents seems to be an occupational hazard for teachers. I'm sick of parents being blamed for everything.
Just like every other profession, there are good and bad teachers. I don't know how to evaluate teachers, but I think someone could come up with a system. The rest of us all have to be evaluated.
"President Barack Obama unveiled his plan for a sweeping overhaul of the nation’s school system Saturday, proposing changes he says would shift emphasis from teaching to the test to a more nuanced assessment of judging school and student progress.
Under Obama’s plan, schools would have more leeway to test students on a broader range of subjects and the law would seek to “paint a fuller picture” of a school’s needs by looking at attendance, school climate, and course completion."
On the flip side, the proposal talks about more rigorous teacher evaluations, which is a good thing. But if attendance and school climate are the metrics, one may not need a teaching certification to accomplish that. Maybe just an attendance sheet and a nuanced thermometer.
This seems to be an adaptation of the Performance Based Contracting that BushCo, driven by Cheney the D*ck forced on all Government agencies.
These are "No Requirements" contracts.
For instance, the janitorial contracts have absolutely no cleaning requirements for sweeping, vacuuming, cleaning restrooms, etc. There is only one requirement - and that is, that everything be clean at all times.
Haliburton made a bundle off "Performance Based Contracts" in IRAQ.
To be paid in full on these no-bid contracts, all's Haliburton had to do was to get Bush to say, "Mission Accomplished".
From objectivity to subjectivity (usually just favoratism).
Last edited by ergohead; 03-14-2010 at 01:04 PM..
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