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Read my post above. Not less bright - more caring.
Unless the heavy monetary padding is removed from health care on all sides, physician, hospital, pharmacy, and insurer, it will never be affordable. If you have a better idea, sing out. We're all waiting.
I think that you should read the post by "aneftp" with all the good numbers about salaries of health care professionals. Maybe then answer the post to explain what all is wrong about it.
Of course less bright people will apply to medical school.The brightest will flow to where their compensation and interests will be maximized. Do you think the person who took your pay cut cares more about the job than you did? Nope, they were not smart enough to get a higher paying job.
The monetary padding is caused by the uncoupling of the person paying for something and the person consuming that something. Consider for instance someone else is paying for you to buy a car. What kind of car would you get? How often would you get a new car?
What do you think is going to happen to the resources already existing in the system when 30 million newly minted insured will have access to them?
The soultion is to have people be responsible for the way their healthcare dollars are spent. Right now the system gets clogged with people who run to the doctor for trivial issues because there is no incentive for them to use the resources rationally.
Hope that helps.
So you agree that most of them are in it simply for the money. I knew we could agree on something.
Not a bit. I walked into a docitor's office in August, 2005, and told them I had appendicitis.
It took a CT scan, an MRI, an ultrasound(!), and FOUR DAYS to get me into a hospital where they couldn't operate for another day until I had a complete blood transfusion because I take blood thinners for a heart problem, a fact that I had pointed out to the doctor in writing on my initial visit.
By the time they finally got around to laparoscopically removing the appendix it had burst, and I was in the hospital for four more days.
Total cost was $22,000 for an operation that should have cost a fourth that much because everyone had to get a pinch of the insurance.
When my wife was born in Brooklyn in 1949, the delivery fee was $35.00 anf the hospital stay for her mother was @ $200. My grandchild was born in nashville last September and the cost for a normal delivery was nearly $30,000 with the hospital stay and all the testing.
These sorts of situations and charges have to be curtailed and rolled back.
I'm fine with that as long as lawyers can be regulated by the government too. Their rewards have to be capped and thus they can't charge clients 30% of their rewards. They can't sue for an ungodly amount just to become rich.
And while we are at it, why don't we allow the government to regulate companies. That way, the executives at companies can't outsource labor to third world countries just so they can become richer and reduce costs.
When this happens, I'm okay being regulated by the government
So you agree that most of them are in it simply for the money. I knew we could agree on something.
Not a bit. I walked into a docitor's office in August, 2005, and told them I had appendicitis.
It took a CT scan, an MRI, an ultrasound(!), and FOUR DAYS to get me into a hospital where they couldn't operate for another day until I had a complete blood transfusion because I take blood thinners for a heart problem, a fact that I had pointed out to the doctor in writing on my initial visit.
By the time they finally got around to laparoscopically removing the appendix it had burst, and I was in the hospital for four more days.
Total cost was $22,000 for an operation that should have cost a fourth that much because everyone had to get a pinch of the insurance.
When my wife was born in Brooklyn in 1949, the delivery fee was $35.00 anf the hospital stay for her mother was @ $200. My grandchild was born in nashville last September and the cost for a normal delivery was nearly $30,000 with the hospital stay and all the testing.
These sorts of situations and charges have to be curtailed and rolled back.
Of course they go into medicine in part because it pays a lot of money. Most people gravitate towards occupations that will maximize their compensation while at the same time fulfilling them as much as possible. Again you don't do you job simply to serve humanity. Why do you think physicians should or even can be different from everyone else?
In Brooklyn in 1945 no one had insurance for office visits or routine care. They had to pay for it out of pocket which had 2 results. One people consumed resources much more rationally. 2 there was competition among physicians. When insurance pays each physician the same thing for the same procedure, there is no competition.
Also lets not forget in 1945 lawsuits were far fewer. Obstetrics is among the highest cost malpractice insurance in the country.
The vast majority of the cost of your treatment was supply and demand. Too many people chasing too few resources. It will get much worse with 30 million more ensured while keeping the resources the same.
Wrong. You'll produce doctors who are doctors for the right reasons, and because they want to be doctors and not just get rich, they will in all likelihood become more competent as they pursue knowledge for its own sake and for the benefit of those they take an oath to serve.
Now this is hilarious...you will get more competent doctors as they "pursue knowledge for its own sake"...yeah that's why the top 10% of every medical school class goes into the most lucrative fields of medicine...it's because they pursue knowledge for its own sake.
Sorry but medicine is a part of our capitalistic system. You can't have it both ways. If you want the best, then you have to dangle the carrot. If you want mediocre then you provide no incentive to become a doctor. It's that simple. That is why the people with money all over the world will travel to the United States to be treated because we have the best and most skilled doctors in the world.
It's up to you. Your approach won't produce the best doctors but the system will save money. So would you rather save money at the expense of your life? Get back to us and let us know
So you agree that most of them are in it simply for the money. I knew we could agree on something.
Not a bit. I walked into a docitor's office in August, 2005, and told them I had appendicitis.
It took a CT scan, an MRI, an ultrasound(!), and FOUR DAYS to get me into a hospital where they couldn't operate for another day until I had a complete blood transfusion because I take blood thinners for a heart problem, a fact that I had pointed out to the doctor in writing on my initial visit.
By the time they finally got around to laparoscopically removing the appendix it had burst, and I was in the hospital for four more days.
Total cost was $22,000 for an operation that should have cost a fourth that much because everyone had to get a pinch of the insurance.
When my wife was born in Brooklyn in 1949, the delivery fee was $35.00 anf the hospital stay for her mother was @ $200. My grandchild was born in nashville last September and the cost for a normal delivery was nearly $30,000 with the hospital stay and all the testing.
These sorts of situations and charges have to be curtailed and rolled back.
We could roll back many of those charges if we did something about tort reform and didn't force doctors to use all those tests to cover their asses from trial lawyers working on those contingency bases. Have you ever thought of that?
In 1985 my last child cost us about $600 in doctor's fees but his intern told me that he was paying over $25,000 per year for insurance just to deliver babies. Once again tort problems were, of course, involved.
We could roll back many of those charges if we did something about tort reform and didn't force doctors to use all those tests to cover their asses from trial lawyers working on those contingency bases. Have you ever thought of that?
In 1985 my last child cost us about $600 in doctor's fees but his intern told me that he was paying over $25,000 per year for insurance just to deliver babies. Once again tort problems were, of course, involved.
Malpractice insurance coverage for OB-GYNs is out of control. No question about that.
Why do you assume it's about economic parity with anybody?
Better yet, why do you assume that because someone graduated in the top of his or her class means that he or she will become a competent, caring medical professional?
Many people can learn whatever they need to to get a meal ticket, but it doesn't necessarily make them competent, professional, or humanitarian. Politics is full of very smart people who are on the take because it's easier than working.
Your specific arguement is for less pay for physicians. That indeed is an arguement for economic parity.
I don't assume. However, to graduate at the top of the class and continue to preform at the top during intern & externships one has already proven competance.
Nearly fifteen years for medical school, interships, exterships, and specialization is too long for someone who is casually seeking a "meal-ticket". Long days and the ever looming threat of medical malpractice, on call 24/7 indeed makes them "professional".
Did you ever think to turn your arguement around a bit to understand that earning a good salary is what allows many doctors to take the time off and travel to third world countries for medical humanitarian efforts? That those salaries allow them to devote the time resources to treat some without any means of obtaining aid (think of children flown to the US for special surgeries and cancer tx.).
With all the weeping and moaning and gnashing of teeth since the HC bill passed, and all the wild tales about doctors quitting their practices in droves, maybe the new bill isn't so great after all.
What we need to do is lobby our congressmen for a bill that makes the practice of medicine a government controlled field of endeavor. When doctors graduated medical school, which will be paid for by the State, they will be required to work for five years as interns for a living wage while they learn their chops.
After their residency they will still work for the government, but they will receive a decent middle class salary tied to the CPI. They will, however, be allowed to receive production bonuses for successes in curing their patients as well as tips from grateful patients who are cured. If they are really good at what they do, their patients can make them rich intentionally instead of having their pockets picked as they are in today's HC system.
In the new system, the cream can rise to the top, and since salaries will be tightly regulated the greedy ones who only go into the medical field to get rich will have to find a new scam. The ones who truly want to become doctors because of their humantarian instincts will be the ones who fill in the gaps, and everyone will benefit from the change.
What do we need to do to get the ball rolling? Any ideas?
You can get the ball rolling. Move to Russia, I think that is exactly how they do it there. Or maybe North Korea or China. Why don't you try it out and let the rest of us know how it's going? Duh!
Doctors (particularly specialist /surgeons) put their life on hold for YEARS. Take the average 18 year old and tell him you will need to study 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 1-4 years residency 1-2 years of a fellowship(if specializing) before you see $$. Docs make very little hourly during these years. They are one of the few professions where you literally are chasing the dangling carrot and it does pay off in the end...12+ years later. Long term goals. I have a difficult time believing most go into medicine for the money. Very few do and I am sure it is difficult to watch your friends that have a 4 year degree start making decent money in their mid 20's pass you by, taking the exotic vacations or vacations...period as you have very little "play" time while you study nose to the grind stone knowing you will make alot one day but when you are in your 30's. I am an RN. The majority of doctors love their patients and unfortunately often out of necessity ,prioritize their patients ahead of family and their pursuit of happiness (missing Christmas, birthdays, kids activities etc). Most also are up before sunrise and work 10+hours a day and then when on call often can be up all night and have to do a clinic the following day. The ones to bash in my opinion are the insurance companies and greedy lawyers!
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Why don't doctors work for tips
