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Do you think finnish people could have genetical social anxiety or and some other social problems in their society? Or could it just all be "cultural" ?
This is not by any means a racist question, but when people are soooooooooooooooo introverts and hand shaking and all is toooooooooo much and people need a meter distance on a buss stop... Would it be time to check whyyyyyyyy facing own folks is soooooooooo hard?
I actually know things were a bit differently 40 years ago when finnish people spoke with strangers at buss etc... What the heck happened to new generation? Or in 40 years? Just moving from country side to city is able to do this?
I only looked at the first bunch of cartoons. I've seen forums where foreigners complain about that sort of thing in Sweden. They say there's a cultural value about not standing out, which they say results in a culture of mediocrity; no one wants to excel at anything, because they don't want to stand out. So you're not allowed to have schools for gifted kids; the really smart kids in school are doomed to a lifetime of being bored. This is what people say, anyway. I don't know if it's true. The thing about "personal space" on the bus is a big source of complaints, too.
I think you should post this on the Europe forum. We can't help you, here. It's interesting that you say that these are "new" cultural values that never existed a couple of generations ago, though.
This one happens in the US, too. But it's not about not wanting to stand out. It's that everyone's afraid their questions will make them sound dumb, or that the presenter will think they weren't paying attention.
I only looked at the first bunch of cartoons. I've seen forums where foreigners complain about that sort of thing in Sweden. They say there's a cultural value about not standing out, which they say results in a culture of mediocrity; no one wants to excel at anything, because they don't want to stand out. So you're not allowed to have schools for gifted kids; the really smart kids in school are doomed to a lifetime of being bored. This is what people say, anyway. I don't know if it's true. The thing about "personal space" on the bus is a big source of complaints, too.
I think you should post this on the Europe forum. We can't help you, here. It's interesting that you say that these are "new" cultural values that never existed a couple of generations ago, though.
I have a reason why I choosed to set this into psychology section. Because I want to take the cultural history and modernization (lol) out and just see what it looks like just as plain behavioral act.
I know part of these are new as avoiding strangers and neighbours, that part I know were differently before (at buss for example). But some are also in history since back then as there is lot of sayings which point you cannot show what you have but hide and to be humble...
But yes, it is sad to see these changes which are more likely social anxiety in my eys than only cultural change. It is in any case quite a dangerous change...
Thing is, a lot of those nightmares are common in polite society in the U.S., too, so they're not necessarily Finnish traits. Most people who were raised with any manners are aware that taking the first or last slice of pizza has the potential to make one look self-centered or greedy. Most people will not deliberately sit down next to someone else if there are open rows of seats on the bus or train.
Finland seems to me to be a country of introverts. Okay, that's a gross generalization, but it seems the norms and behaviors there would be those of a culture where most people are introverted. There's nothing wrong with that. One could just as easily ask if the U.S. or certain other countries are pathologically narcissistic because of their loud and boisterous cultures.
Is there a certain amount of genetic commonality? Sure. Finland has the highest incidence of type 1 diabetes in the world. Levels seem to have plateaued in the last 10 years, but autoimmune diseases are genetic. That one particular expression of a genetic anomaly is disproportionately high in such a small population suggests a certain amount of homogeneity, even accounting for environmental factors.
But to have an entire culture be the product of genetic programming? Nah. Culture is largely a result of blending environment and groupthink and its consequent lawmaking. Even in a culture where personal space is prized and people seem to be mostly introverted, there has to be some kind of tacit understanding between most individuals for the culture to form and take hold: "Yes, we all agree that personal space is this far from the body, and there's no need to encroach upon it with all of this room we have here to spread out." Once personal space becomes inviolate, then you see laws that strictly define sexual assault and protect the physical sovereignty and autonomy of women and children. In physically demonstrative cultures, you don't see as many of those laws. As a woman, I'd take Finland over countries where it's okay to drown a woman in a pool because she had sex before marriage. And as an introvert, I wonder what it's like to actually be there, because it sounds pretty cool to me.
I'm half Norwegian, my dad is from Norway, and we are both very much introverts compared to the US standard. Still, he says that the Finns are even more introverted than Norwegians.
I've been to Finland though, and it was paradise for me. Nobody all up in my face, and no obligation to smile to complete strangers for no reason, I could just be me and in my own mind while exploring the beautiful country myself.
Contrast to other countries like in Latin America, India, or the US South, where it felt like people were always in my space and I had to be 'on' all the time.
I'm half Norwegian, my dad is from Norway, and we are both very much introverts compared to the US standard. Still, he says that the Finns are even more introverted than Norwegians.
I've been to Finland though, and it was paradise for me. Nobody all up in my face, and no obligation to smile to complete strangers for no reason, I could just be me and in my own mind while exploring the beautiful country myself.
Contrast to other countries like in Latin America, India, or the US South, where it felt like people were always in my space and I had to be 'on' all the time.
That right there is enough for me to want to visit. If there is one thing that grates on my last nerve, it's some chippy chap looking at me and saying, "SMILE," like I was put on this earth for his sense of aesthetics.
Thing is, a lot of those nightmares are common in polite society in the U.S., too, so they're not necessarily Finnish traits. Most people who were raised with any manners are aware that taking the first or last slice of pizza has the potential to make one look self-centered or greedy. Most people will not deliberately sit down next to someone else if there are open rows of seats on the bus or train.
Finland seems to me to be a country of introverts. Okay, that's a gross generalization, but it seems the norms and behaviors there would be those of a culture where most people are introverted. There's nothing wrong with that. One could just as easily ask if the U.S. or certain other countries are pathologically narcissistic because of their loud and boisterous cultures.
Is there a certain amount of genetic commonality? Sure. Finland has the highest incidence of type 1 diabetes in the world. Levels seem to have plateaued in the last 10 years, but autoimmune diseases are genetic. That one particular expression of a genetic anomaly is disproportionately high in such a small population suggests a certain amount of homogeneity, even accounting for environmental factors.
But to have an entire culture be the product of genetic programming? Nah. Culture is largely a result of blending environment and groupthink and its consequent lawmaking. Even in a culture where personal space is prized and people seem to be mostly introverted, there has to be some kind of tacit understanding between most individuals for the culture to form and take hold: "Yes, we all agree that personal space is this far from the body, and there's no need to encroach upon it with all of this room we have here to spread out." Once personal space becomes inviolate, then you see laws that strictly define sexual assault and protect the physical sovereignty and autonomy of women and children. In physically demonstrative cultures, you don't see as many of those laws. As a woman, I'd take Finland over countries where it's okay to drown a woman in a pool because she had sex before marriage. And as an introvert, I wonder what it's like to actually be there, because it sounds pretty cool to me.
Social awkwardness and social anxiety goes many times from parents to kids. Also taught habits. I don't mean all 5 million of them would have it but rather so big number of people that is viewed as "normal" cultural trait instead viewed it as a problem.
Moving from country side to city surely changed things by its own side but it does not fully explain it.
I am strongly exaggerating what kind of future would a society have when there is 5 million people who are isolating themselves from each others.
But I agree, it makes lot of freedom when a person is healthy and young and the land is in safe harbor in global view..
But if general view to own folks would be staying as far away of them as possible.. There will be, there always will be the day when one needs another and where they can be find then? War, how introvert, isolated Matti's would suddenly trust each others if war would come? From strangers to brothers in a snap? People depend of each others due to work, water, house warming systems, eldery care, foods, everything actually... It just works so well to modern people that they can imagine they don't need anyone and they are independent... Till something happends and one sees is isolated, alone and vulnerable.
Don't understand me wrong, I am not a small talker and I enjoy of not need a pretendious social life myself..
But I see connection between high domestic violence rate 47% (don't be too ideal of womans position in finnish society), isolation and social anxious type of behaviour. No, I am not saying social awkward people would be violent ones but being strangers instead brothers and sisters leads rather emotionless behaviour toward others.
It is understantable in bigger cities, in bigger countries where there is still enough people to cover you. But in a country of 5 million people which contains a million elders, also minus kids, disabled etc... How many people you can really ditch if in your municipality there is total 99 people- 600 000 people? Are they sure they can count on anyone after long term isolation? First you live 30 years like matti and suddenly one day matti needs something... he does not know his neighbours so who would he ask? Who would help matti that nobody seen before?
Then matti lays 2 weeks half-paralyzed on his floor waiting for dying to hunger and 10 years later they will find his mummied body. Then people say.. I did not know anyone was living at that apartment.. Or actually does anyone have someone to talk to about mattis case? Or did the neigbours died already too? Maybe finland is "found" again after 1000 years and it is a land full of lonely mummies.. ?
When even refugees don't want to stay due to "cold" and dark climate etc. I think they should start to care for each other better..
Find that old culture again when neighbours knew each others and randomly chatted with people at buss.. Imo they have bigger crises than just refugee crisis..
(and answer to your USA-narcissim, yes, I think it is exactly same genetical thing because people choose their reproducing partners by what is "valued" in a society at the moment. You actually made me more sure this is more genetical question than cultural question.. Maybe first cultural, but then, naturally, genetics follow the current "ideals". Also they don't seem to get enough fresh blood, lol, inbreeding creates more problems.
And to be truthfull there is lot lot of outspoken and social people always rambling with big friend circles and strong family bonds. But news and articles are very worrying and speaking their own language, the signs that they should see better before it really goes bad.
And sure, move in, they would freak out of happiness if someone would move in, it would look like this:
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