Shouldn’t women take responsibility in certain assault situations? (attracted, men, woman)

[Phil75230]

Originally Posted by Adrian75

For example a friend of a friend went to a bar, met a guy, went back to his house and drank what he gave her, was then claiming she was assaulted but can’t remember the whole night.
When you know there are horrible sexual predators out there, why would you go to a strangers house and also drink something he gave you, not knowing what’s in it. I would think you would have to claim some responsibility for putting yourself in harms way especially these days when there is so much evil out there.
It’s one think to be jumped when walking to your car and another thing to willing go back to a strangers house.

You're assuming that people lacking "street smarts" deserve scorn. It may be very common, perhaps human nature, to do that. But it still doesn't make it right. Besides, scorn's only proper target is toward the committer of a wrongful act or expression against another - not the recipient. Making naivite, gullibility, etc. into a standard of scorn-worthiness is not exactly helping the victim either. It's victim-blaming, pure and simple.

[jencam]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

You're assuming that people lacking "street smarts" deserve scorn. It may be very common, perhaps human nature, to do that. But it still doesn't make it right. Besides, scorn's only proper target is toward the committer of a wrongful act or expression against another - not the recipient. Making naivite, gullibility, etc. into a standard of scorn-worthiness is not exactly helping the victim either. It's victim-blaming, pure and simple.

More than just scorn. Complicit in their own rape.

[Waterdragon8212]

I think that one of the reasons victim-blaming is so prevalent in society is due to people's unconscious desire to distance themselves from the victim position. By believing in the illusion of control (i.e. the woman bears some responsibility in the rape), people can delude themselves into thinking "this can't happen to me because I would control those variables." I don't think this is within most people's conscious awareness, but it's a known psychological phenomenon. It gives people a false sense of security and allows them to deny the frightening reality of the staggering assault numbers that actually exist. Furthermore, it places them as far away as possible from the victim role, so that they don't have to align with something so painful and terrifying.

As I've said in my earlier posts, I do believe we need a culture shift and some serious education on consent (and assumptions of consent), but I was just thinking about the less conscious/less obvious reasons that this is so pervasive...

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by jencam

I think it's more than that. People still have sympathy for the parents. The 'shouldn't have taken their eyes off though' is secondary. When women are raped, it's far more blatant regarding 'she must have done something wrong for this to happen, what was it?'

What was she wearing, where was she, did she flirt with the guy? How much did she have to drink?

Did she forget that she has to dump any drink that gets out of her eyesight for even a moment? (That is my rule, knowing what can happen), but that is an insane amount of diligence we must constantly be under, and we can NEVER alter our behavior enough to keep ourselves safe from anything, as you pointed out about snipers at a concert.

Every single question asked is aimed at placing the blame anywhere but on the rapist.

It is more than just that. Parents do receive blame, deserved or undeserved, when something bad happens to their children. It's the same mentality--if something bad happened it's because of something the victim did or didn't do, so since I am responsible it won't happen to me. With rape victims there are other factors, like those who don't think woman should socialize with men and are receiving punishment for their licentiousness and those who assume rape victims really wanted to have sex and only later decided it was not consensual.

[L8Gr8Apost8]

Originally Posted by mondayafternoons

Saw a sarcastic video about what if robberies were treated like rape? Two officers ask the woman "so...you were just like putting your goods out there for everyone to see, huh? Almost like you wanted some guy to take your stuff, huh? Why didn't you bolt it down ? Is it because you were asking for it?" Etc

I think about what would have happened to me if I had been too drunk to get away and tried to report it to the police. At the time I didn't understand the severity of what happened but through the years I've thought of it and it's really changed my perspective on what people deem "drunken sex the woman regrets". I hadn't even interacted with the guy that tried to get me. He was using the situation of a bunch of drunks hanging out that wouldn't be able to give a reliable statement if one of us was assaulted when we passed out. If I had more to drink before I tried to go to bed I easily could have woken up with him on top of me. He could have said I asked him to come in or was flirting with him or whatever and I may have not been able to prove otherwise if I was too drunk. I would probably have been accused of getting drunk and regretting cheating on my husband. As it was, I remember the whole night. I was able to get away. Only because I was tired and didn't want to drink anymore. This whole "regretting a drunken decision" is nonsensical anyway. I've done stupid things when I was drinking. The very LAST thing I would want to do is put it on blast by telling everyone. The thinking behind that would have to have the woman wanting other people to know what had happened just so she could blame the guy.

[Sassybluesy]

Originally Posted by Nicci6Squirrels

What if I am in a "good" neighborhood at 3 in the afternoon, walking around in a polo shirt, baggy mom jeans, and ugly tennis shoes and I get sexually assaulted? Is it less "my fault," then? What if it's the same rapist who assaulted me in the "bad" neighborhood at 3 am who assaults me in the "good" neighborhood at 3 pm? Could it be possible that it's just because a rapist is a rapist? And not dependent on what I was wearing, where I was, or what time I "dared" to go out into the world?
If someone is going to rape someone else, it doesn't really matter what else is going on. The problem is with them. It starts with them and it ends with them. THEY are the problem.

What if you're just a little kid in suburbia, trying to walk to your friend's house?

[jgn2013]

Originally Posted by lucky2balive

Perfect example...the Weinstein accusation from actresses in hollyweird
claiming he assaulted or raped them

30 years ago...long after he helped and aided their careers
asia argento claimed he asked her back to his hotel...she accepted WOOPS
then asked for a massage...she gave him one WOOPS 2
then he forced oral sex on her....she pretended to like it WOOPS 3
then she ended up having a consensual relationship with him and let him supports her

I don't feel bad for ANY of these actresses who let this pig aid their career and NOW all of a sudden they report it...bull crap

Agreed. I've heard some of the ladies calling out men in Hollywood for not stepping up (Matt Damon), yet NONE OF THEM said anything....famous actresses that have about as much pull as Damon.

[jgn2013]

I'd guess that most sexual assaults are situations where the woman is fully aware of what's going on but can't physically stop the man. We also have to keep in mind that most victims know their attackers. The woman randomly going into a man's house partially drunk wearing a questionable outfit is not nearly as common as the woman sitting in the car with a (previously) trusted coworker/friend that takes advantage of her.

Women definitely have to be "street smart." If you get drunk in public, dress provocatively etc., expect trouble to arise. However, women often are careful and still face rape and assault from those closest to them.

[geekigurl]

Originally Posted by Clintone

I'm pretty sure I already know why rapes generally happen and it can't be cured or treated because we don't know a way to increase empathy or decrease skill at selective empathy. They just want sex and that outweighs their empathy, or they practice the great skill humans can have at selective empathy. Yeah, they just don't care, like you mentioned.

Ok, if it can't be treated or cured, here is my solution. You rape, you die. Period.

[AnywhereElse]

Originally Posted by ContraPagan

And she CHOSE to put herself into that situation by going home with someone who she only just met that evening. No idea if he is a sex offender, has a rap sheet several pages long, a sociopath or narcissist.... No, it doesn't excuse his actions, but you have to be a special kind of stupid to just hand over an opportunity like that to someone.

And if she is admitting that she can't remember the entire evening, then she just might have consented to whatever sex happened. Regretting a night spent with someone doesn't mean you get to call it rape, and just because you can't remember consenting doesn't mean you didn't.

And I really can't understand why, the more and more we hear about this and similar scenarios, that our young women don't seem to be learning to avoid them.

As a woman, I'm agreeing you. I have seen these type women, and know their type well. They are out for "fun" without the possibility of consequences.

Neither does getting angry with the man and deciding to call it rape. Rape is a serious charge.

Originally Posted by bus man

I believe the legal term for this is "contributory negligence." That is, the act is the fault of the perpetrator, but the victim contributed in some way to making it possible to happen.

If a woman walks down the street wearing revealing clothing, she is NOT asking to be raped -- but she shouldn't be surprised if guys stare at her. If a woman goes to a bar, meets a guy, goes back to his apartment, and drinks something that she didn't see him pour, she is also not asking to be raped -- but she's gone a long way towards making it possible for the man to rape her, if that's his intent.

So yes, in the latter example I would say that the woman bears some responsibility, for putting herself in a position of extreme vulnerability.

Excellent. I agree 100%!

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

Plenty of women (if not most women) regret a night and don't call it rape. But at the same time, taking advantage of someone who is so impaired that she can't make informed decisions doesn't make him much of a stand-up guy.

You do realize that often, they are both impaired? Either drunk or drugged sex that happens between two stupid people with regrets in the morning.

Originally Posted by brocco

I'm sure plenty of women do take responsibility in such situations.

I would say the majority.

Originally Posted by Electrician4you

If a woman is just out of her mind drunk I can't imagine sex would be much fun. Nor can I imagine sex being good if she's passed out comatose. The good thing about sex is the willingness of the other person. I mean which would you wanna go to bed with? A partener who is not only willing to do things but inventive about it and you can see they are having fun while being pleased and doing it and pleasing you back or what amounts to basically a dead body or you're cleaning up vomit and **** because they can't control themselves.
I don't know about you but I prefer my partners to have a " I'm gonna do you so good you're gonna be in a wheelchair for a week by the time I'm done " attitude to sex.

So 1950s! Seriously, the world has changed, and not for the better.

Originally Posted by Adrian75

She shouldn’t be getting incapacitated in the first place. Know your limits and don’t drink anything given to you by someone you don’t know (besides the bartender or waitress).

How dare you suggest the woman should practice some personal responsibility in order to avoid unintended sexual experiences! Neither the woman or the man are doing this. Trusting people that you barely know is stupid, but in the name of "having a good time" or "having some fun", stupid is all too often front and center in such encounters.

Originally Posted by steiconi

I agree with how far you've gone, but HER foolishness does not in any way reduce HIS responsibility.

I agree, but everyone needs to be doing the most they can to protect themselves if they don't want to end up like this.

Originally Posted by steiconi

If she can't remember, then she was in no shape to give consent.

What if neither can remember? What if it were drunk or drugged sex and both were in the same condition?

Frankly, how stupid does anyone have to be not be realize the possibilities these days, even in the 1970s, I knew better than what these present day women seem to know, of course, I worked to protect myself rather than relying on crying "victim".