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Well that is the thing. Society doesn't have to know anything. All they have to do is lift their pinky and judge much like the estranger needs to do nothing but lift their pinky to engage in the estrangement.
Example:
Them: Hey do you have kids?
Me: Yes, I do. I have 4. 3 I live with and 1 that lives in Maryland. I don't get to see him though.
Them: Hey don't worry! They come around, they ALWAYS do. I mean is that just a misinformed person? Maybe trying to make me feel better? How is it that everyone will tell you not to worry to your face but now that we are discussing things on the internet many folks already know that family is weird and it is fairly likely that we will be separated for life.
I have bottled up a ton of emotions over time. I don't think that I completely understand your thoughts on lack of "say so" though.
Sure, I am lazy and unmotivated due to my feelings about some things. Is that what you mean?
BTW - I never insinuated that I am closing the door on my son should he ever open it...should he ever find the door. (Just saying this informationally for the thread not directly at you).
Thanks.
What you provided is not an example of "society" being judgmental of you. What you posted is an example of "society" being kind to you, and yes, trying to make you feel better about a raw deal. It's interesti8ng that you interpret that as being judgmental. You're projecting jungmentalism where there is none, there is only kindness and concern. Your mind is rebuffing "society's" sympathy for your situation. "Society", according to your example, is aware that some men get a bad deal child-custody-wise after divorce, and wants you to know you've done nothing wrong, and are not to be blamed. That's what "society" is telling you. But you've twisted the message all around.
If you never see that 4th child and don't care whether you even do, then why mention him at all to a person who doesn't even know you well enough to know how many children you have?
You invite that supposed "criticism" when you bring up a situation that, frankly, is too complicated for small talk like that. Just mention the children you are currently parenting.
No. The "lazy and unmotivated" part IS a huge problem and would seriously **** me off if you worked for me, but this is what I meant about a lack of say-so in your own life:
It sounds like you are depressed about your life, and the numbness is your coping mechanism.
Hey I concur. Is numbness always bad though? I am not completely numb. I can't think of any realistic alternative besides coping with "what is" not "what if" with respect to my child. Sure as heck beats the alternative of beating myself up....and it doesn't seem that you are advocating that I beat myself up.
It definitely isn't about whether or not I see my child. I think it takes more effort to statistically lie about the amount of children that I have or had. Brings back bad feelings....OK, hey you got me there since I am typing openly and being candid. I don't want bad feelings about that estrangement. I lived with those bad feelings consciously for some time.
Why don't you give me some ideas about the lazy and unmotivated parts instead of telling me that I'd tick you off lol?!
I was estranged from my child by the child's mother. The child is now an adult.
Many people *say* that I will hear from my child at some point when he becomes an adult. I think that is misguided, fairy tale, or even malicious advice.
I am exposed to several fathers in the 50's and 60's and they all have the same story. They never hear from their kids and attempts to reach out have been in vain.
The same thing happened to my mother. She has spent her whole life trying to have her son show interest in her after being estranged from him. She is now in her 70's and is now just beginning to notice that her efforts have yielded in no fruition.
To me, it seems that society today is cold and has ostracism down to a science perhaps even delighting in causing others pain.
As for me, I'll put in a bit of effort (much as I did when my son was a child), but I like to let it go at some point.
My folks are very adamant that I'll hear from my son one day. I don't get that perspective. I find it easier to forget about someone who wants nothing to do with me. After 10's of thousands of days with my son being on my mind, his existence doesn't cross my mind anymore.
I focus on my current family with little effort at this point.
I still find myself demonized for this perspective.
Any thoughts on this perspective and situation?
Thanks!
I can sense the pain in your thread, and I feel so sorry for you. Sadly, not every parent/child relationship is like Ozzie and Harriet, some are toxic and distant.
You seem to be working on getting over it, and I think that is good. I wish you well.
Well that is the thing. Society doesn't have to know anything. All they have to do is lift their pinky and judge much like the estranger needs to do nothing but lift their pinky to engage in the estrangement.
Example:
Them: Hey do you have kids?
Me: Yes, I do. I have 4. 3 I live with and 1 that lives in Maryland. I don't get to see him though.
Them: Hey don't worry! They come around, they ALWAYS do. I mean is that just a misinformed person? Maybe trying to make me feel better? How is it that everyone will tell you not to worry to your face but now that we are discussing things on the internet many folks already know that family is weird and it is fairly likely that we will be separated for life.
I have bottled up a ton of emotions over time. I don't think that I completely understand your thoughts on lack of "say so" though.
Sure, I am lazy and unmotivated due to my feelings about some things. Is that what you mean?
BTW - I never insinuated that I am closing the door on my son should he ever open it...should he ever find the door. (Just saying this for the thread not directly at you).
Thanks.
What I don't get is why is it the children who should come around? I'm not sure of the details in your specific situation. But did your child make it clear his entire childhood that he wanted nothing to do with you? Or did his mom just try to keep you apart making it a pain? Because unless your child absolutely hates you....I would say it's the parents job to make it right, not the child's. The parent should never stop trying, even if being ignored. I feel no matter what a kid says, they always want to know that their dad (or mom) misses them, loves them and is there for them if they ever want to talk. I feel like too many dad's in particular, just walk way because it's easier and they don't want to deal with a difficult ex. They tell themselves, "we'll be close once they are older", but then it might be too late. Even if you can't see them, send birthday cards, call on Christmas, text them, e-mail them, if nothing else just to say you love them and you would love to talk to or see them. I think knowing that as a child, greatly increases the chances of them wanting to be close to you as an adult. If, however a dad(or mom) just disappears off the face of the earth, then expects a warm reunion....too much damage and hurt has been done. That is my personal opinion of course and what I think is best for the child. Honestly in a divorce with kids involved, the parents personal feelings just don't matter...it's all about the kids. Personal feelings, anger, pride etc needs to be left at the door. Just my 2 cents.
What you provided is not an example of "society" being judgmental of you. What you posted is an example of "society" being kind to you, and yes, trying to make you feel better about a raw deal. It's interesti8ng that you interpret that as being judgmental. You're projecting jungmentalism where there is none, there is only kindness and concern. Your mind is rebuffing "society's" sympathy for your situation. "Society", according to your example, is aware that some men get a bad deal child-custody-wise after divorce, and wants you to know you've done nothing wrong, and are not to be blamed. That's what "society" is telling you. But you've twisted the message all around.
That's sad. The whole story is sad.
I concur. It's the inverse quite possibly. I *feel* (or maybe even felt after your post) that society actually knows no better and is propagating this awful that never makes the media. Maybe they are underinformed. Perhaps there is an underlying layer of my anger at their being underinformed? I didn't twist the message around...I got the message mixed up.
Hey I concur. Is numbness always bad though? I am not completely numb. I can't think of any realistic alternative besides coping with "what is" not "what if" with respect to my child. Sure as heck beats the alternative of beating myself up....and it doesn't seem that you are advocating that I beat myself up.
It definitely isn't about whether or not I see my child. I think it takes more effort to statistically lie about the amount of children that I have or had. Brings back bad feelings....OK, hey you got me there since I am typing openly and being candid. I don't want bad feelings about that estrangement. I lived with those bad feelings consciously for some time.
Why don't you give me some ideas about the lazy and unmotivated parts instead of telling me that I'd tick you off lol?!
Yes my life is depressing, that's for sure.
No, numbness is not always bad. It probably has kept you from going off or harming yourself or others. Like I said, it's a coping mechanism.
It sounds, though, like you are beginning to question this situation, the condition of your life, and that you are tiring of living this way. It's the beginnings of what they used to call a midlife crisis.
So ...
Is this all there is? That's usually the question that gets people started on making changes. You have to sort out the issues that you KNOW deep down are making you unhappy. Because you are unhappy. That is obvious. It's okay. It sounds like you are functioning pretty highly.
But you have a LOT going on that is above my pay grade here. I honestly would advise getting some therapy. At least you can learn some ways to deal with these unexpected everyday situations that come up, like telling someone how many kids you have, that reopen those wounds.
I can sense the pain in your thread, and I feel so sorry for you. Sadly, not every parent/child relationship is like Ozzie and Harriet, some are toxic and distant.
You seem to be working on getting over it, and I think that is good. I wish you well.
You are awesome. I blame TV for making us think this way.
What I don't get is why is it the children who should come around? I'm not sure of the details in your specific situation. But did your child make it clear his entire childhood that he wanted nothing to do with you? Or did his mom just try to keep you apart making it a pain? Because unless your child absolutely hates you....I would say it's the parents job to make it right, not the child's. The parent should never stop trying, even if being ignored. I feel no matter what a kid says, they always want to know that their dad (or mom) misses them, loves them and is there for them if they ever want to talk. I feel like too many dad's in particular, just walk way because it's easier and they don't want to deal with a difficult ex. They tell themselves, "we'll be close once they are older", but then it might be too late. Even if you can't see them, send birthday cards, call on Christmas, text them, e-mail them, if nothing else just to say you love them and you would love to talk to or see them. I think knowing that as a child, greatly increases the chances of them wanting to be close to you as an adult. If, however a dad(or mom) just disappears off the face of the earth, then expects a warm reunion....too much damage and hurt has been done. That is my personal opinion of course and what I think is best for the child. Honestly in a divorce with kids involved, the parents personal feelings just don't matter...it's all about the kids. Personal feelings, anger, pride etc needs to be left at the door. Just my 2 cents.
Here is why the child must come around. Remember the black iron curtain I alluded to? That is exactly what it is in this scenario.
Mom has my son's cell phone. The child historically refused to accept phone calls and "child" would only text under the convenient guise of culture. What perfect timing.
Conversations with child via text seemed to be with mother. When you use the verbiage "parents" did you intend to use the word in a plural sense or only pertaining to me? If it was in a plural sense, well the mother has made it clear that she will do nothing to condone the relationship between myself and my child.
Let's make this clear. If I tried to visit my son I'd be a criminal because I'd be trespassing in spite of what any court order said. All the estranger has to do is wish me away and the law is on her side.
As to the rest of your post. I'd very likely be texting the estranger for the next 10 years and have no desire to speak to that estranger for obvious reasons. The child is likely to stay with his mother for the next 10 years based upon current trends.
The reality of what you are saying is best left to a pamphlet. All parent 1 has to do is say "no" and you are done. That is the harsh reality.
There is no pamphlet for snail mail tossed in a shredder, toy broken on purpose, et al.
This is why I refer to the paperwork that did this. It shows what I tried to do about it only to have the other parent and the system do nothing about it.
I strongly disagree with men having a tendency to walk away. The estranger cheated on me, divorced me in a no fault State, and then did this. I kid you not 80% of the men that I have conversations with tell me the same story. Just because things like this don't make the news does not mean that they are not real in the every day lives of people.
No, numbness is not always bad. It probably has kept you from going off or harming yourself or others. Like I said, it's a coping mechanism.
It sounds, though, like you are beginning to question this situation, the condition of your life, and that you are tiring of living this way. It's the beginnings of what they used to call a midlife crisis.
So ...
Is this all there is? That's usually the question that gets people started on making changes. You have to sort out the issues that you KNOW deep down are making you unhappy. Because you are unhappy. That is obvious. It's okay. It sounds like you are functioning pretty highly.
But you have a LOT going on that is above my pay grade here. I honestly would advise getting some therapy. At least you can learn some ways to deal with these unexpected everyday situations that come up, like telling someone how many kids you have, that reopen those wounds.
So this is what a mid-life crisis is huh? Lol! I thought it had passed. Thanks for the notification.
Really, this is all there is. I have gained tons of information from this thread. Thanks for the compliment on my functionality.
I am going to take the good that I received in this thread and throw out the rest just like anything else in life.
Thank you for your time...and hey throw something out at me in my work thread...call me a lazy bastard. I am not concerned about your heart being in the right place.
Here is why the child must come around. Remember the black iron curtain I alluded to? That is exactly what it is in this scenario.
Mom has my son's cell phone. The child historically refused to accept phone calls and "child" would only text under the convenient guise of culture. What perfect timing.
Conversations with child via text seemed to be with mother. When you use the verbiage "parents" did you intend to use the word in a plural sense or only pertaining to me? If it was in a plural sense, well the mother has made it clear that she will do nothing to condone the relationship between myself and my child.
Let's make this clear. If I tried to visit my son I'd be a criminal because I'd be trespassing in spite of what any court order said. All the estranger has to do is wish me away and the law is on her side.
As to the rest of your post. I'd very likely be texting the estranger for the next 10 years and have no desire to speak to that estranger for obvious reasons. The child is likely to stay with his mother for the next 10 years based upon current trends.
The reality of what you are saying is best left to a pamphlet. All parent 1 has to do is say "no" and you are done. That is the harsh reality.
This is why I refer to the paperwork that did this. It shows what I tried to do about it only to have the other parent and the system do nothing about it.
I strongly disagree with men having a tendency to walk away. The estranger cheated on me, divorced me in a no fault State, and then did this. I kid you not 80% of the men that I have conversations with tell me the same story. Just because things like this don't make the news does not mean that they are not real in the every day lives of people.
Like I said, I didn't know the details of your particular situation. I wasn't speaking about you specifically, just "parents" in general. Maybe things are different depending on which State you are in and how many years ago your divorce took place. I know laws and fathers rights have changed drastically over the years. I have been through the system myself with my ex and it does NOT work that way in CA. Both mother and father have equal rights unless one of them can be proven to be "unfit". Judges don't listen to he said/she said. There must be actual proof or it doesn't matter. I have sole physical custody, and joint legal but I can NOT just say "no you can't see your child because I feel like it". We have a court order that very much protects BOTH of our rights. If I were to try to keep my daughter from speaking to or seeing her dad, I would be in big trouble! Now if HE chooses not to see her or have a relationship, then I can't make him. But legally he has every right to and the courts would support that. In my experience I have met a spoken to MANY dads who have virtually abandoned their kids because it was "too hard" to deal with their ex's and uncomfortable. So many of them have said they would just wait until the kids grew up, then have relationship with them. It drives me crazy. My ex in particular tells my daughter all the time how much he loves and misses her, which is great, yet he hasn't actually made the effort to see her in two years because it's just "too hard", even though I constantly offer to make arrangements and even pay for everything so that my daughter can see her father. I believe that there are MANY amazing dad's out there who might get the short end of the stick and do everything they can do see their kids. But I'm afraid there are just as many who just walk away or let their pride, fear, whatever it may be, get in the way. It's really sad for the kids. I feel for you and think it is just awful for a mother or father to purposely try to keep a dad (or mom) away from their child or to try to poison their minds against them. A child should have both parents in their life as long as the parent is not a physical or emotional danger to the child.
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I am not concerned about your heart being in the right place.
