Hot water, tankless vs. hybrid heatpump tank (apartment, how much)

[newstudent299]

Hello All,

Anyone use a tankless hot water system, if so would you comment on it. Anyone use a hybrid heatpump hot water tank, comments please. Building a new house and trying to go a bit green. Most plumbers are not pushing the tankless saying the water doesn't get warm enough. I find that hard to believe considering the water is already warm without being heated. The heat pump is another option but once again you are heating water even if not using it.

thanks in advance.

[SeaRay35]

Tankless are very popular here in NJ and work well now that most of the kinks have been discovered. We have the Manabloc system with a hot water tank in PG and you would be surprised how long it takes for the water to heat up, which Charlotte Plumbing said was normal. In hindsight I would have gone tankless if I realized especially with water costs in PG.

[Harbor Hopper]

I have two neighbors that just installed electric tankless heaters in the past year. One hired a plumber, the other was DIY (and permitted). Both LOVE them. When my 2yr old propane heater dies in 10yrs, I'll be going tankless.

[newstudent299]

Thanks, what size unit Tankless did you go with Im thinking 27? 2 people, 5 with guests 2 bathroom.

[Salty Dave]

When we lived in Okinawa in the 70's we had a tank-less water heater for our apartment.

It was great, was a gas unit though not sure how well they would work with electric.
They were mounted outside of the houses over there, only problem we ever had was the pilot would be blown out with high winds (typhoon) I am sure that since the 70's things have improved with the heaters.

[RexLan]

Originally Posted by SeaRay35

Tankless are very popular here in NJ and work well now that most of the kinks have been discovered. We have the Manabloc system with a hot water tank in PG and you would be surprised how long it takes for the water to heat up, which Charlotte Plumbing said was normal. In hindsight I would have gone tankless if I realized especially with water costs in PG.

Do you think the water will get to your fixture FASTER if it is X distance from the fixture coming from a tankless heater than it will if it comes from a tank That only works if the heater is in the bathroom!

It is unlikely that your HW fixture at the shower is 100' away from the manabloc, but, if it were that would only use 1.6 gallons of water from the tank to the shower head fully flooded - hardly a game changer with $5/1000 gallon water or 625 showers later.

Tankless heaters have been around 40+ years so they likely got the "bugs worked out" long ago. I have had them at my Alaska remote cabin since the late 70's which is a good application.

Often times people are mislead by contractors, especially those selling propane, who really know very little and put even less thought into what comes out of their mouth when selling a customer something.

OP -- save your money. A std 50 gallon electric HW heater will serve your needs well and it is cost/benefit efficient.

[SeaRay35]

Originally Posted by RexLan

Do you think the water will get to your fixture FASTER if it is X distance from the fixture coming from a tankless heater than it will if it comes from a tank That only works if the heater is in the bathroom!

It is unlikely that your HW fixture at the shower is 100' away from the manabloc, but, if it were that would only use 1.6 gallons of water from the tank to the shower head fully flooded - hardly a game changer with $5/1000 gallon water or 625 showers later.

Tankless heaters have been around 40+ years so they likely got the "bugs worked out" long ago. I have had them at my Alaska remote cabin since the late 70's which is a good application.

Often times people are mislead by contractors, especially those selling propane, who really know very little and put even less thought into what comes out of their mouth when selling a customer something.

OP -- save your money. A std 50 gallon electric HW heater will serve your needs well and it is cost/benefit efficient.

I'm sorry all knowing one that was a quote from our plumber that tankless is better, obviously you do not know much about them. It takes a hot water heater time to heat and maintain temp unlike instant hot.
Since you have never been in my home you have no clue how much water it takes to reach temp at my shower or my kitchen for that matter. You obviously also have no clue all the problems Rinnai had about 5 years ago with boards frying.
I guess all my plumber friends who have changed to them know nothing as well LMAO!

[MikMal]

We have a Takagi 175,000 BTU propane water heater in our Maryland house for over 10 years with no problems. I would do it again as long as I have propane or natural gas; not sure how the electric models are.

One thing that takes getting used to with a tankless heater is that they need a minimum flow rate for the heating element to come on and a lesser flow rate to keep it on; if you don't open your faucet enough it either won't turn on or, in the case of not flowing enough water once it is on, it'll shut off before you want it to. Not a game changer; just something to be aware of.

Our master bath is about 45' from the heater so I installed a Metlund On-Demand water circulating pump under the vanity. It has the option to operate by a motion sensor but I installed a small push button out of sight on the side of the vanity instead. If I want hot water, I push the button and the pump circulates water from the hot water pipe back into the cold water pipe (yes, it does work even though at first thought it doesn't make sense). Once the pump senses hot water, it shuts off. At that point I open a faucet and have hot water almost instantly. It probably runs for about 30 seconds, so I guess I'm not saving that much water from going down the drain but I figure every little bit helps. They make different model pumps; the one specifically for tankless heaters I believe flows more water to ensure that the heater senses the flow to turn on.

[Restrain]

If you have natural gas or propane, tankless is the way to go. If all electric, the tankless are not as efficient as they can't 'flash heat' the water as the elements still have to heat up.

[RexLan]

Originally Posted by SeaRay35

I'm sorry all knowing one that was a quote from our plumber that tankless is better, obviously you do not know much about them. It takes a hot water heater time to heat and maintain temp unlike instant hot.
Since you have never been in my home you have no clue how much water it takes to reach temp at my shower or my kitchen for that matter. You obviously also have no clue all the problems Rinnai had about 5 years ago with boards frying.
I guess all my plumber friends who have changed to them know nothing as well LMAO!

Yep ... you are 100% correct - you know nothing. I guess I will lump your "plumber friends" in with you as well then ... lol.

I have been using tankless heaters over 40 years - read my man before you open. As MikMal correctly pointed out that is exactly how they work and he has a great setup. However it does not matter what the source is it will take X gallons of water BEFORE you get any hot water to the fixture - period

Frying circuit boards has nothing to do with "tankless heaters". That is an issue with a poor design by the manufacturer. In contrast, I have never had a single issue. Today's std. electric hot water heater cost about $400 and will last 15 years. They are very well insulated with foam and energy efficient converting every KW of electricity into heat. Not like the old days.

It does not matter how big or tiny you home is. I gave you an example of 100' nothing more or less. Numbers are numbers - read it again. But if you want to spend north of $1000 for your Rinnai then by all means go forward my man. Bottom line - you are wasting $$$ but it is yours to do so with.

Enjoy