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I heard that clicking your heels together and saying, "I will get a job, I will get a job" works, too.
I moved here without knowing a soul, too, all by myself -- with 2 kids, 2 dogs and 2 birds.
But even then, when I visited for a week, I had 5 interviews scheduled, and I had a job offer before I moved.
It's not that easy anymore.
It was far easier even 3 years ago, when the poster below showed up, than it is now.
Those of us who advise not showing up here expecting you will get a job immediately -- or even in 2 years -- are doing a public service.
For years, this area has been a Mecca for job seekers. It takes a long time for the news to get out that it is no longer that way.
Outsiders are not reading City-Data or the News & Observer every day or experiencing it firsthand or watching friends and relatives suffer. There is outdated information on the Internet.
We freely provide information on this site to others. Most of us have absolutely nothing to gain from it. To say it's all peachy keen would be a lie. A cruel lie.
Of course there are independently wealthy people and retirees with a steady income. Of course they know we're not talking about them.
Will things get better? Sure! I'm betting on it! When? I haven't a clue. Will it be like before? I doubt it!
Oh, by the way: DMHWAJ! (Don't move here without a job!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC2RDU
Regarding the OP, I'm with you. I'd rather fail on my own terms then get by on someone else's. This partial quote (often attributed to Goethe) has served to inspire and motivate me for many years.
"the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way.".
I once tried to follow the paths forged by others but I found them crowded with too many people unwilling to trust in their own abilities and instincts. I hated being just a number along the way and have been much happier since taking risks.
Coincidentally I write this from my house in Raleigh almost three years to the day after I relocated my family down here because our life back in New York stopped making sense. We knew no one down here and my company was already waffling on whether or not to keep my practice going. But my gut feeling was that this was where we belonged and because I've long since committed to trusting my instincts and making decisions that weren't always supported by facts we made the move. Turns out I was right in doing so.
Nothing is guaranteed; jobs, house values, health. Live your live and don't just exist.
NYC - very philosphical; but we are not talking against moving to experience the wonder & exhilaration you describe We are giving down to earth, common sense advice to move here prepared with resources and not expecting a job right away - that's it, plain and simple!
The economy is in a shambles everywhere and in most places it's worse than here. Giving advice on the job market and the local economy is subjective. I think people are looking for validation more than information. I've been able to start and build a moderately successful business in the very worst economy any of us have known which is absolutely the definition of counter-intuitive these days. Everyone told me to keep the last job I had but I knew myself better and had I listened to others (particularly strangers on these boards who don't know much about me) I'd still be hating myself somewhere near sixty hours per week.
Here's my advice to those considering making the move without a job in place:
Unless I was already able to afford my life and had job security I'd still be itching to get out of "there" and get down "here". Based on rising debt, decreasing asset value and remarkable uncertainty in my job situation I knew the odds were better that I'd regret staying where I was. Turns out I was absolutely right. Had we stayed on Long Island we either would've foreclosed or barely escaped with the clothes on our back.
Dear Abby once wrote that your instincts are "a lifetime's worth of experience telling us what we already know". If you sense that things are likely to get worse if you do nothing then do something. You are never going to have all the information you'll want to make big decisions. Sometimes common sense only gets you part of the way to the right answer and you have to complete that journey via a leap of faith.
If you're living in the New York/New Jersey area (or one just like it) and can get a mortgage down here and sell your house there I'd roll the dice on making the move. Life down here is not perfect, it's not free and it's very different. But life here is absolutely easier and more affordable. And if you have enough savings to navigate through a potentially extended period of un or under employment I highly recommend you make the move.
Remember (to those still trying to decide) that there are always going to be people both in your lives and here on these boards who are prepared to talk you out of anything and everything. Search inside yourselves and make decisions that you can live with. It may not work out and it probably won't work out exactly like you expect it to but at least you'll have trusted your gut feeling. Doesn't the rule "to thine own self be true" still exist?
I heard that clicking your heels together and saying, "I will get a job, I will get a job" works, too.
I moved here without knowing a soul, too, all by myself -- with 2 kids, 2 dogs and 2 birds.
But even then, when I visited for a week, I had 5 interviews scheduled, and I had a job offer before I moved.
It's not that easy anymore.
It was far easier even 3 years ago, when the poster below showed up, than it is now.
Those of us who advise not showing up here expecting you will get a job immediately -- or even in 2 years -- are doing a public service.
For years, this area has been a Mecca for job seekers. It takes a long time for the news to get out that it is no longer that way.
Outsiders are not reading City-Data or the News & Observer every day or experiencing it firsthand or watching friends and relatives suffer. There is outdated information on the Internet.
We freely provide information on this site to others. Most of us have absolutely nothing to gain from it. To say it's all peachy keen would be a lie. A cruel lie.
Of course there are independently wealthy people and retirees with a steady income. Of course they know we're not talking about them.
Will things get better? Sure! I'm betting on it! When? I haven't a clue. Will it be like before? I doubt it!
Oh, by the way: DMHWAJ! (Don't move here without a job!)
You shouldn't marginalize my point because it seems more fantasy than fact.
I never said things are great down here and because I hadn't said so in my post I'll share with you that I didn't come here for a job but rather to prepare for the possibility of losing the one I had. Relocating to Raleigh saved my family from financial ruin and allowed us the flexibility to make it through. I can completely quantify that had we stayed where we were we never would've been able to hold onto our house or afford to stay in our neighborhood.
I would absolutely come down here without a job if I knew I could finance an extended period of unemployment. The only way I would stay "there" is if I had guaranteed employment and was making enough money to stay afloat.
The stress of having no options is way worse than picking the wrong one.
Telling people to not move here without a job is not a rule, it's an opinion. And it's only an opinion that works for some, not all.
I'd rather make the wrong decision for the right reasons rather than making the right decision for the wrong ones.
You shouldn't marginalize my point because it seems more fantasy than fact.
I never said things are great down here and because I hadn't said so in my post I'll share with you that I didn't come here for a job but rather to prepare for the possibility of losing the one I had. Relocating to Raleigh saved my family from financial ruin and allowed us the flexibility to make it through. I can completely quantify that had we stayed where we were we never would've been able to hold onto our house or afford to stay in our neighborhood.
I would absolutely come down here without a job if I knew I could finance an extended period of unemployment. The only way I would stay "there" is if I had guaranteed employment and was making enough money to stay afloat.
The stress of having no options is way worse than picking the wrong one.
Telling people to not move here without a job is not a rule, it's an opinion. And it's only an opinion that works for some, not all.
I'd rather make the wrong decision for the right reasons rather than making the right decision for the wrong ones.
I agree with you, NYC2RDU. My husband and I are in the same situation... I got laid off last year and have since discovered that the niche industry I was in paid extremely well and 98% of most marketing jobs out there pay 30% less than what I use to earn. If we choose to stay in CA, we'll barely get by financially and won't have any $$ for emergencies or even savings... unless by some slim chance, I get another job in the same industry. So we'd rather take the risk of moving cross-country in hopes of getting decent jobs in RTP and being able to live a comfortable life, then stay in CA and feel trapped by finances with no way out besides waiting around for my husband's annual raise (which will take years to get to the point where it'd be "comfortable" or an unrealistic hope that I'll make as much as I use to. To each their own. I'm not under some illusion that the move or job hunt will be easy. But I already know what'll happen if we stay in CA.
This of course makes sense, but as one who is frequently saying "Be sure you have a job first", my point is "If you're leaving where you are because of no job opportunities, why not improve your odds by moving somewhere that has a GOOD job market?" The Triangle, at this point in time, is not that place. Improve your odds and go to Texas or DC or one of the places much higher on the list of job markets, is my main point. This area used to be known for being a good market, and it seems that people haven't gotten the message that it's not like that anymore.
Exactly. Ever heard the quote, "In for a penny, in for a pound?" If you're thinking of leaving one part of the country for an entirely different part where you don't know a soul, then head for the areas that are truly booming. No, the entire US economy is NOT in the toilet. In fact, DC's market is so good that you can apply for jobs from out of state and have a good chance of getting hired, especially if you're clearable. As stated here before, when I got laid off, I began a dual search in RTP and Northern VA. I had to aggressively court the NC employers. Never got a response from a single one, not even temp agencies. Applied to jobs and put my resume online for NoVA, got calls and emails from up there daily. Same resume, same qualifications, same industries. In fact, over a month after getting hired I'm *still* hearing from recruiters with some amazing openings in my industry in the DC area.
If you really have your tongue out for Raleigh, then at least do the research and have your savings in order. It's a lovely area and I wish we could have stayed, but we had to go where the money is, and right now, that's DC.
If you're living in the New York/New Jersey area (or one just like it) and can get a mortgage down here and sell your house there I'd roll the dice on making the move. Life down here is not perfect, it's not free and it's very different. But life here is absolutely easier and more affordable. And if you have enough savings to navigate through a potentially extended period of un or under employment I highly recommend you make the move.
You talk as if there are only two options: Stay in NY or come to NC. What many of us have been saying is: If you need to get out of a bad economy, absolutely do so! But if you're moving on account of the economy, doesn't it increase your odds to go on and pick a part of the country where the economy is doing the best? NC is not currently that place.
It's not a binary thing "either NY or NC". It's "stay vs move" and THEN, if "move" is chosen, "move somewhere there are jobs or somewhere there aren't" (and even then, various choices in the "where there are jobs" cities. The point many are making is that whatever "jobs magnet" this area might have been 3 years ago, it no longer is, so someone who understandably is getting away from a bad job scene and looking for somewhere better greatly increases their odds on new employment by looking into cities where the unemployment is low and new job growth is more positive than the Triangle. I don't think anyone is saying "you must stay where you are, bad economy or not"; we are saying "If you're going to move somewhere without a job, you may want to pick somewhere that finding a job is easier than in central NC at this time."
I think there are many different situations that factor into this type of decision. Moving here and being unemployed for more than a year could work for some folks that have built up a financial cushion. For most of us, being unemployed for a year could have devastating effects on finances and put a strain on most any marriage/family. Also, age factors greatly into this. Being young and single, it wouldn't be a huge setback if no work was found upon moving here. It would be relatively easy to pack up and move onto somewhere else.
Just please keep in mind while making your plans to move to NC, that if you are fortunate enough to find a job, the salary will likely be less than what a similar job would pay in other areas of the country. So, even though homes prices for instance are less than let's say, the NY/NJ/Philly metro area...so are salaries.
Giving advice on the job market and the local economy is subjective. I think people are looking for validation more than information. I've been able to start and build a moderately successful business in the very worst economy any of us have known which is absolutely the definition of counter-intuitive these days. Everyone told me to keep the last job I had but I knew myself better and had I listened to others (particularly strangers on these boards who don't know much about me) I'd still be hating myself somewhere near sixty hours per week.
Here's my advice to those considering making the move without a job in place:
Remember (to those still trying to decide) that there are always going to be people both in your lives and here on these boards who are prepared to talk you out of anything and everything. Search inside yourselves and make decisions that you can live with. It may not work out and it probably won't work out exactly like you expect it to but at least you'll have trusted your gut feeling. Doesn't the rule "to thine own self be true" still exist?
We are not giving subjective advice on the local job market/economy. It's interesting that you brought this up because IMO your posts read this way. Your posts are clearly tainted by your view/experience in an almost pollyannish way. You wax poetic about the risk of lost opportunities.
In our posts (naysayers as you describe us), while we may share anectdotal info, we have shared facts to support that many thousands more people here are out of work than there are jobs for. However, this isn't our main point. Which is, if you move here without a job, have enough money to live on for months, maybe a yr, or longer until you find a job. And plan B, consider what you will do if you don't find a job.
Your anectdotal story about starting up a business here in the worst economy....well, I achieved similar for the last organization I worked for. And, during the Great Depression, there were similar stories of business success. Yet we all know how many people were out of work then. Do you see how your posts are tainted by your experience, yet you say other posters are sharing subjective opinions? I'm not trying to slam you but ask you to see that we are all trying to tell you this.
BTW - you are talking to a person who came to this country many years ago with a suitcase, little money, a desire to live in the US, I was 19 yrs old. Oh, and I had a job! At 19, I knew better than to come here without one or the means to support myself. Since then I have taken many risks, but always did everything I could to hedge my bets (due diligence). I was thorough with my research. Took advice from those in the know. We are never too old to learn from others who've been there before us!
Those interested in moving here would do well to listen to people who are in the know such as Francois, LoveBrentwood, Mike Jaquish, Vicki. Because of their personal and or professional experience, I would trust their advice 100%.
I moved here from New Orleans in 1989 and took a 30% cut in my IT job salary.
However, I did have a job offer and a relo.
Our needs were modest. We took a modest flat and it worked out for us.
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True, but....
We are giving down to earth, common sense advice to move here prepared with resources and not expecting a job right away - that's it, plain and simple!
