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We always have to have the one health advocate! I eat like crap (mostly) but I stay in shape.
I've been trying to both lose weight and go vegetarian and now all I want is a pastrami on rye or 10 - and Neal's will hit the spot for sure - but I WILL resist
They have both (as an aside - Red Pepper's Americanized food is awesome too!).
Not picking on you, either, but I think you're not familiar with the type of food we're talking about. It doesn't have to be in NYC.
It's a style of deli that people like, no more no less.
The comparison to Indian and Chinese restaurants is completely apt. As I've said here before, it really is ok to eat something that is not native to NC.
I just don't think you can do the same thing in another location. The folks doing NC food in NY aren't doing old school NC food. It really sounds like the old school NY/NJ delis are what folks are missing. A lot of that is the atmosphere of the deli. I think you can find a lot, though maybe not all, of the food you'd get in an old school NY deli here. That's okay, you can't find all of the NC food in NY either.
I went on that trip to the UK this summer and people on TripAdvisor were trying to tell me that you could find good Southern food in London. I'm like, no thanks (and why would I want that over there anyway). I don't doubt that there are some Southerners that have gone over there and opened up restaurants to appeal to the ex-pats and everyone else in London and I'm sure there are folks from NY and NJ running restaurants (maybe even delis) in London, too, but it's not the same, y'know?
Now Indian food in London — amazing, but again I don't think it's exactly the same as in India. It's the Indian diaspora's take on what will sell in the UK to UK folks, Indian folks there, and all the other ethnicities in the UK. No denying it's amazing top notch food, but it's its own thing. Chicken Tikka Masala originated in Glasgow, btw.
They also have Mexican food over there, but we were so not down with that there. They apparently serve potato wedges with sour cream in their take on Tex-Mex restaurants. So weird.
NY Delis are going out of business left and right. If they can't make it in NYC, they can't make it anywhere. I think it has to do with people eating more healthy, this plus meat costs are very high and most people don't want to pay big bucks for a good sandwich anymore. I was pleasantly surprised how cheap restaurants were in The Triangle area, are folks going to pay $20 for a sandwich?
Not really. The famous ones are, but mostly because they are in high rent areas of NYC. It's hard to sell enough sandwiches to pay Manhattan rent. There are plenty, and I mean puh-lenty of well known, very successful kosher style deli's thriving all around the Tri-state area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michgc
I'm a vegetarian so when I go to a New York deli I order a blintz, a knish, kasha, or maybe some kinds of kreplach but never, ever kishka! For dessert, I'd get some bobka. If you go to NYC and go to a deli, it might help if you know these terms. NY delis are not just pastrami and corned beef!
You are absolutely correct! there are so many other factors in play to make the deli experience what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy
I think a NY deli could succeed in the Triangle. However, it needs to be a good deli. IMO the ones that have tried thus far weren't very good. I doubt they would have made it up North. The right place will come along one day.
When Weinberg's opened up on Falls of Neuse a few years ago I was so hopeful. Walking through the front door I knew right away their chances of making it were slim. Walking out the door I knew they wouldn't last very long.
The place was not filled with the aroma of a deli. The counters were barren, no knish or hot dogs simmering on a grill behind the counter. Where were the hard salami's, the jars of pickles, the.... anything behind the counter? And the sandwiches we ordered made Subway seem exciting in comparison. They sent out a small dish with sours, there were four pickle spears and that was it.
The owner explained that he had researched deli's up north, but I remember thinking on my way out that maybe he meant Virginia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers
Last time I was there Harold's was $20 for a good sized corned beef sandwich. I'm not paying that.
Harolds is a tourist trap. It's intended to replicate the Carnegie Deli experience without having to driving in to Manhattan. I have family who moved away from the NYC area decades ago who love going there, but almost no one I know who still lives in the area eats there regularly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by annabanana123
NY Bagels and Deli on Falls of Neuse is awesome. It's in the shopping center with Kroger at Strickland and Falls. Highly recommend...the line can be out the door depending on time of day but it's cheap and delicious!
This is the best argument as to why a kosher style deli could absolutely make it here. NY Bagels is as authentic as they come, and in some ways, even better than the bagel places I frequented when I still lived up north. People don't go there because of nostalgia, they go there because they make great bagels and don't try to be something other than what they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin3904
There's more to a Jewish-style deli than pastrami. It has nothing to do with it being "NY enough."
Absolutely correct!
You don't need six inch piles of cured meat or grossly over-sized portions. You need to fill the space with the right aroma, decorate your counter display with all of the basic trappings and offer a menu that's consistent with what people are looking for. Make a sandwich that fills people up with properly prepared meats, put out a bowl of sours (and maybe coleslaw) that is full and offers assortment. Offer freshness and flavor. Go visit any one of a dozen places on Long Island and steal their approach (Pastrami N Friends in Commack is a favorite, or any of the Ben's locations).
If done properly, people in the Triangle would definitely indulge and enjoy. There are enough people from major urban centers living here now who would enjoy the experience, and for those who have yet to indulge in a true deli experience, they would likely find it worthwhile.
To chime in on a serious note, I agree with the "it will never be the same simply because it's not in NY/NJ crowd".
I think this little anecdote may help explain why: somewhere down-thread someone mentioned the chicken biscuit place in Portland. It's actually called Pine State Biscuits. I heard about it on the Travel Chan. or Food Network a few years back. I ended up mentioning it to a friend who lives there (but grew up in NC, as I did) and she agreed to check it out to see how it measured up to a real chicken biscuit from Bojangles.
Her report was pretty much that yes, it was an excellent chicken biscuit but no, it wasn't "the same" or close to Bojangles or anything we'd consider to be a good, Southern chicken biscuit. It was all cage-free, organic, or whatever was needed and came with some very strange toppings and just didn't hold a candle to the "real thing". Not that cage-free, organic and the like are necessarily *bad* but that the flavor isn't easy to replicate when you start changing things. Plus, she said the biscuit was too crumbly and didn't stand up to being used as a sandwich.
This gave me an "a-ha" moment because this is precisely the same set of issues I have about Beasley's. Beasley's, which is actually in Raleigh and actually run by an NC native. But it still misses the mark on being a good southern biscuit in many, many ways. Beasley's has basically taken all the NC out of the chicken biscuit, exactly the same way a non-NC restaurant is apt to do simply because they're catering to a different crowd and tastes.
To chime in on a serious note, I agree with the "it will never be the same simply because it's not in NY/NJ crowd".
I think this little anecdote may help explain why: somewhere down-thread someone mentioned the chicken biscuit place in Portland. It's actually called Pine State Biscuits. I heard about it on the Travel Chan. or Food Network a few years back. I ended up mentioning it to a friend who lives there (but grew up in NC, as I did) and she agreed to check it out to see how it measured up to a real chicken biscuit from Bojangles.
Her report was pretty much that yes, it was an excellent chicken biscuit but no, it wasn't "the same" or close to Bojangles or anything we'd consider to be a good, Southern chicken biscuit. It was all cage-free, organic, or whatever was needed and came with some very strange toppings and just didn't hold a candle to the "real thing". Not that cage-free, organic and the like are necessarily *bad* but that the flavor isn't easy to replicate when you start changing things. Plus, she said the biscuit was too crumbly and didn't stand up to being used as a sandwich.
This gave me an "a-ha" moment because this is precisely the same set of issues I have about Beasley's. Beasley's, which is actually in Raleigh and actually run by an NC native. But it still misses the mark on being a good southern biscuit in many, many ways. Beasley's has basically taken all the NC out of the chicken biscuit, exactly the same way a non-NC restaurant is apt to do simply because they're catering to a different crowd and tastes.
Hopefully that ramble makes sense to someone?
im sorta hearing
"When you try to upscale and make rareified a food culture with populist roots you take the soul from it"
"A rich mans biscuit" should be a non - sequiter
but i mean really its gastro-fusion culture
I mean really also you could says gentrification in a nut shell...appropriation with no roots or history...but that's prob too much liberal arts essay
To chime in on a serious note, I agree with the "it will never be the same simply because it's not in NY/NJ crowd".
I think this little anecdote may help explain why: somewhere down-thread someone mentioned the chicken biscuit place in Portland. It's actually called Pine State Biscuits. I heard about it on the Travel Chan. or Food Network a few years back. I ended up mentioning it to a friend who lives there (but grew up in NC, as I did) and she agreed to check it out to see how it measured up to a real chicken biscuit from Bojangles.
Her report was pretty much that yes, it was an excellent chicken biscuit but no, it wasn't "the same" or close to Bojangles or anything we'd consider to be a good, Southern chicken biscuit. It was all cage-free, organic, or whatever was needed and came with some very strange toppings and just didn't hold a candle to the "real thing". Not that cage-free, organic and the like are necessarily *bad* but that the flavor isn't easy to replicate when you start changing things. Plus, she said the biscuit was too crumbly and didn't stand up to being used as a sandwich.
This gave me an "a-ha" moment because this is precisely the same set of issues I have about Beasley's. Beasley's, which is actually in Raleigh and actually run by an NC native. But it still misses the mark on being a good southern biscuit in many, many ways. Beasley's has basically taken all the NC out of the chicken biscuit, exactly the same way a non-NC restaurant is apt to do simply because they're catering to a different crowd and tastes.
Hopefully that ramble makes sense to someone?
Anna's pizza in Apex is exactly the same Anna's pizza on Long Island (and many locations there as well), the only thing different is down here they can serve alcohol. Sergio's in Wakefield, same sort of thing. I'm as New York as you're going to find down here and there is some awesome Chinese food, pizza and yes, even bagels. I've even found a place that makes an insanely good corned beef sandwich (Cafe Meridian). A properly done deli is viable (honestly, look at how quickly this thread has blown up, it's hotter than a pizza thread).
True, no restaurant, regardless of how good it is, will please all of the people. But if done right, they'll please enough people and that's okay.
To chime in on a serious note, I agree with the "it will never be the same simply because it's not in NY/NJ crowd".
I think this little anecdote may help explain why: somewhere down-thread someone mentioned the chicken biscuit place in Portland. It's actually called Pine State Biscuits. I heard about it on the Travel Chan. or Food Network a few years back. I ended up mentioning it to a friend who lives there (but grew up in NC, as I did) and she agreed to check it out to see how it measured up to a real chicken biscuit from Bojangles.
Her report was pretty much that yes, it was an excellent chicken biscuit but no, it wasn't "the same" or close to Bojangles or anything we'd consider to be a good, Southern chicken biscuit. It was all cage-free, organic, or whatever was needed and came with some very strange toppings and just didn't hold a candle to the "real thing". Not that cage-free, organic and the like are necessarily *bad* but that the flavor isn't easy to replicate when you start changing things. Plus, she said the biscuit was too crumbly and didn't stand up to being used as a sandwich.
This gave me an "a-ha" moment because this is precisely the same set of issues I have about Beasley's. Beasley's, which is actually in Raleigh and actually run by an NC native. But it still misses the mark on being a good southern biscuit in many, many ways. Beasley's has basically taken all the NC out of the chicken biscuit, exactly the same way a non-NC restaurant is apt to do simply because they're catering to a different crowd and tastes.
Hopefully that ramble makes sense to someone?
Field report from Portland:
Absolutely true about Pine State. They do make a fine product, but it ain't the same. Also, regarding deli's, there's a very good approximation in Portland called Kenny & Zukes. All the accoutrements, including a terrific salad that holds up to NYC standards. Oddly (at least in terms of airport food goes) K&Z are opening a spot at PDX which has a selection of outpost operations of some of the best brick and mortar restaurants in town. Pok Pok, an amazing Thai place (started in Portland and owned by a Anthony Bourdain travel mate) Mo's Chowder, Burgerville and a couple dozen more local favorites all have shops in the airport. More than once I've found myself sticking around before or after a flight to grab a bite rather than traverse about town to hit the flagship operations. Helluva place to book a layover The port authority also mandates the food is held to the same prices as their intown operations.
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NY delis are not just pastrami and corned beef! 
The port authority also mandates the food is held to the same prices as their intown operations.
