Trying to make a relationship work with an alcoholic (therapy, daughter, therapist)
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When did I ever say I treated anyone with disrespect or a lack of empathy. You are reading way too much into my posts.
I am not a christian as you can tell by my obvious Atheist title. I don't care about judging or being judged, that's your bag, not mine. When society decides to get real and stop making pitiful excuses for obnoxious anti-social behaviour, then we can make progress.
Anyway, I digress, this is about the OPs alcoholic boyfriend who refuses to admit he's an alcoholic nor take responsibility for his actions. The OP will learn her hard lessons on enabling sooner or later, as many of us have.
You never said it, I said it. I have read every single post you made to the OP and yes they lacked empathy. And not only that, but if you really do some honest reflection, you'll see that your general attitude towards addicts is not one of understanding. It is one of judgment. If you don't mind being judgmental, that's fine with me. But I would think even atheists would like to see themselves as being
informed and understanding. And certainly as a medical professional it is required of you to try be as informed and understanding as possible.
And I agree, I hope she does learn from this, but I certainly hope she doesn't take from it what you have. Experiences can either help you grow as a person, or they can make you cold and bitter. If you grow you become more compassionate, more loving, more understanding. If you become bitter ... well, you become bitter.
In addition to my professional experience and my experience researching, I also have my own personal experience caring for someone who has alcoholism. This experience changed my life in a good way. I can honestly say it has made me into a better person. I could have held onto anger and hurt, but I chose not to. It was not an easy decision to make. Everyone has to make that decision for themselves. You made yours, let the OP make hers.
Does anyone non-judgmental have an experience in this regard? Do you just discard people because they have addiction problems, or just assume that it's that easy for other peoplel?
I'm trying to make a relationship work (or at least, remain a close friend to) a man that I know has a problem with alcohol. I posted about our relationship issues earlier, but I've had a hiatus from this forum and we broke up (essentially I sent him a text message saying he wasn't the right person for me) and got back together again now that I'm having my own major problems and need support. He's fourteen years my senior and more well established than I am, so it's hard for me to be in the position to give him life advice. My sister's advice is essentially, "Why can't you date someone normal?" when her husband is unemployed but that's another matter.
I feel really good when I can just escape from my life and work and stay at his house in the Hamptons, but he has major anxiety and I think that lends to some of his addiction issues. He also injects steroids and it contributes to his moodiness I believe. I'm also disappointed with his behavior and his seeming unwillingness to change and I think he thinks that I'm just some docile, obedient young woman there to serve his needs and not question what he does. For example, I tell him pedicures are great because it's good to have someone massaging your legs and feet and he's like, "Why do I need that? I have you to do all that." And I love massaging him and scratching his back as it pleases him and I tend towards being non-verbal in my affection, but I have a lot of opinions, I'm very strong willed, and I'm certainly not docile. I think he thinks because I'm quiet I have no issues, things just have to be drawn out of me and I act in different ways when I'm displeased instead of being verbal. My mom taught me that, my family is immigrant.
Not even a week before we decide to try again, he drunk dials me AGAIN, and this time he's angry drunk, accusing me of not wanting to talk to him or hear from him and accusing me of sleeping around. I ask him if he's drunk and he slurs that he isn't, but then confesses to me he's done a "little bit" of drinking. I tell him I want to go to sleep and he's disturbing me, He tells me that I have nothing else better to do than to wake up for or do accept to wait for him (YES! Unbelievable!) and that I'm lying about why I have to get off the phone. I hear him telling someone in the background he's safe to drive, and the person is disagreeing with him. Then HE hangs up on ME. For about 10 minutes, I try to lie back down and relax because I have my own stessors, and then I start calling him back, worried, wanting to make sure he's home and safe because I know sometimes he's injured himself while intoxicated. I call 4 times and he doesn't pick up and I leave him 2 upset voicemails. Then I fall asleep again and he starts calling me again at 6:30 am but I'm solidly asleep and when I wake up, I ignore it.
I think he is definitely deserving of a strong woman behind him but I don't know if I'm that person (I know he sounds like a monster in the tidbit I shared, but the bulk of the time we are together he is sober, adorable, affectionate, and loving). I'm not verbal and I don't put my foot down. I have avoidant tendencies and we both have anxiety problems. But I think about him constantly, not just because I'm worried about him, but because of what he does psychologically for me. It's hard for me to find someone I'm really into psychologically and physically and I'm always dissatisfied, but everything about him does it for me. I just can't be his therapist, but I want to be his girlfriend still. I don't know if it's going to work though. I expect a hailstorm of personal criticism but I don't really care. I just needed to vent.
Hi!
I'm an alcoholic. You want to know what I hear about myself all the time from people? You're how old? C'mon, really? I look younger than I am, but my immaturity probably helps cement the illusion. I'm 47 yrs old and people usually guess 30-35.
Why am I so immature? Instead of dealing with problems I drank to escape them. I'm a relief seeking missile! I try very hard and think I'm maturing, but realize I'm immature emotionally, reasoning wise, and dealing with relationships. A girlfriend/mate would need to be patient with that, understanding, and probably need to realize that THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH HER BEING ATTRACTED TO ME! Be it Florencenightingale syndrome, attraction to a bad boy, whatever. Alanon can be a great help, whether he goes to AA meetings or not.
Lastly I have realized I just plain do better with women who are closer to my maturity age, rather than my cronological. I've been in a very happy, stress free relationship for 2 years. She's 12 years younger! Probably only a few years older than me maturity wise!
Why am I so immature? Instead of dealing with problems I drank to escape them. I'm a relief seeking missile! I try very hard and think I'm maturing, but realize I'm immature emotionally, reasoning wise, and dealing with relationships.
C'mon, Opti... That "maturity" is highly overrated anyway. It pretty much means all the fun has been sucked out of you. I try to fight it myself!
I personally have known many people who have a drinking problem and those that are or where in a relationship with one and they all have one thing in common. It never worked well, if they stayed together they were unhappy. For me it is a complete deal breaker. Not worth the hassel, the lying, the mental games, the distructiveness, anger. Don't get me wrong I have them as friends but as a person I can count on or love as a partner, no way.
It's like I pickeled myself. I go to my reunions and most of my classmates..look and act 47 older. A bunch of the females comment about how youthful and fit and energetic I am, but they quickly figure out it's not from working out and eating right. That I'm also far more immature than they are. I have to learn things they learned years ago! I consider it a blessing and a curse. My natural inclination when confronted with a problem is how do I get out of this, instead of how do I deal with this. Slowly I figured out the older/more mature you get you figure out how to AVOID a lot of problems instead of running from them, creating them, and duplicating them over and over. At one stretch I didn't drink for 15 years, but I wasn't working on or maturing with my problems. I didn't quit drinking for myself. I was like Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven. You take away my reason for quiting, I'm right back in the saddle rationalizing anything to eventually drink again. That's why an alcoholic quiting for a mate is a ticking time bomb! They have to want to quit for THEMSELVES! Look at what he did in that movie. He quit for his wife. He keeps saying "I don't do those things anymore" and slowly he does ALL those things, rationalizing I have to do it for a reason until he drinks. He ends up getting his best friend killed, killing people for money, but rationalizing it's because they did something bad, not because there's a reward in it for him. And eventually he even threatens the women he rationalized he was helping. It's a really interesting movie because aparently while his wife was alive he was SATISFIED barely eeking out a living on that farm, wasn't he? She was acting as his conscience! But don't be deceived! Do you want to act as a chain for rabid dog, but if you, the chain, breaks, it goes beserk? Wouldn't it have been better to truly reform him? The only way that TRULY happens is from within, not from any outside source, not even superfixerupper woman. Which is what most of these women who are attracted to us bad boys secretly feel they are!
You never said it, I said it. I have read every single post you made to the OP and yes they lacked empathy. And not only that, but if you really do some honest reflection, you'll see that your general attitude towards addicts is not one of understanding. It is one of judgment. If you don't mind being judgmental, that's fine with me. But I would think even atheists would like to see themselves as being
informed and understanding. And certainly as a medical professional it is required of you to try be as informed and understanding as possible.
And I agree, I hope she does learn from this, but I certainly hope she doesn't take from it what you have. Experiences can either help you grow as a person, or they can make you cold and bitter. If you grow you become more compassionate, more loving, more understanding. If you become bitter ... well, you become bitter.
In addition to my professional experience and my experience researching, I also have my own personal experience caring for someone who has alcoholism. This experience changed my life in a good way. I can honestly say it has made me into a better person. I could have held onto anger and hurt, but I chose not to. It was not an easy decision to make. Everyone has to make that decision for themselves. You made yours, let the OP make hers.
And I have my own personal experience living with a drunk. So what, we all have a story to tell. Mine is simply not a 'oh poor me I've had a hard life so I can be a drunk and treat others like crap' story.
I save my compassion for those who deserve it, not for the addicts who suck the life out of you. I'm glad you are so much holier than thou for your experience, but save it for those who care.
I have a limited capacity for bullsh^^ so I simply don't accept the conventional woe is me stories.
I choose to live my life free from druggies and alcoholics who use my compassion and caring. It's a defense mechanism from years of being used and abused. I simply try to pass that on to anyone prepared to listen and take it on board.
And I have my own personal experience living with a drunk. So what, we all have a story to tell. Mine is simply not a 'oh poor me I've had a hard life so I can be a drunk and treat others like crap' story.
I save my compassion for those who deserve it, not for the addicts who suck the life out of you. I'm glad you are so much holier than thou for your experience, but save it for those who care.
I have a limited capacity for bullsh^^ so I simply don't accept the conventional woe is me stories.
I choose to live my life free from druggies and alcoholics who use my compassion and caring. It's a defense mechanism from years of being used and abused. I simply try to pass that on to anyone prepared to listen and take it on board.
I empathize with your experience. I hope that through this discussion we can come to some understanding. This issue is filled with emotion and personal experiences, but we must remember, that it is the facts that are important.
The facts are there is hope for people who suffer from alcoholism. The facts are there is hope for their families and the people that love them. This hope comes from the science that is lifting back the veil to reveal this horrible, and long misunderstood condition.
The more you learn, the more you understand. I used to think I knew what alcoholism was because my best friend was an alcoholic. I used to judge her. I used to think I knew what was wrong with her. But then I started reading, and I realized that I was the one who should be judged. I was the ignorant one, I was the one who had no compassion.
I thank people like Dr. Millam who have devoted their lives to helping treat this horrible disease. It is because of people like him that there is hope. Not only has he devoted his life to treating alcoholism and even created a hospital for alcoholics, but he also published a book to reach all those that he could not reach through his medical practice. We need more people like that.
I also found it interesting you attack your sister for giving you any advice with pointing out her husbands flaw. This is why Alanon might be appealing to you. You'll meet people trying to deal with THE SAME PROBLEM and possibly feel commonality with them. Most alcoholics feel the same way when given advice from a NONalcoholic. The most ineffective person in a rehab will be the book smart, over educated person,NONALCOHOLIC who feels they've learned enough to help alcoholics. When they walk out of the room everybody starts laughing at them for not having a clue! You know how a lot of them eventually become great therapists? They start drinking heavily from failing miserably trying to save us!! Join AA get better and go back to being a therapist at a rehab. Now everybody feels they know what their talking about. ROFLMAO
I was in a rehab and there was this I know everything because I just graduated from college girl, who had just been hired. Everybody, including the other staff members hated her! She came to me with this 200 page outline for PTSD. I told her I was there for alcohol treatment, that I had a psychiatrist for PTSD. She informed me HER personal PTSD program had the highest success rate in the Northeast. I just looked at her over my glasses and said how long have you been out of college? What does it matter? How long have you been using this program? 6 months! Any case study/program would take at least a year to start gauging comparitive results, wouldn't it? She stormed out of the room! I joked to the guys "how long before her first AA meeting?" HUGE LAUGH! "she's more full of herself than any 5 of us, combined!"
Sadly, I was at her first AA meeting a few years later and she was a wreck! And that smarter than everybody else girl didn't make it, either. Overdose. Nobody can "save", or "cure" us! It's why, after spending 27 days, and upwards of $30,000 or more, they'll send you to us! All the medical people have really figured out about alcoholism is how to make $30k off of them before they send them to THEIR REAL TREATMENT! US! Which we have always done for free! Before alcoholics started helping each other the standing medical prognosis was we were HOPELESS, and INCURABLE! I know a lot of medical people don't REALLY believe in the 12 step program. What they REALLY think is it's a placibo that works.
Sadly, somebody thinks they can cure alcoholics, we'll bring you down a lot quicker than you'll ever help us!
I empathize with your experience. I hope that through this discussion we can come to some understanding. This issue is filled with emotion and personal experiences, but we must remember, that it is the facts that are important.
The facts are there is hope for people who suffer from alcoholism. The facts are there is hope for their families and the people that love them. This hope comes from the science that is lifting back the veil to reveal this horrible, and long misunderstood condition.
The more you learn, the more you understand. I used to think I knew what alcoholism was because my best friend was an alcoholic. I used to judge her. I used to think I knew what was wrong with her. But then I started reading, and I realized that I was the one who should be judged. I was the ignorant one, I was the one who had no compassion.
I thank people like Dr. Millam who have devoted their lives to helping treat this horrible disease. It is because of people like him that there is hope. Not only has he devoted his life to treating alcoholism and even created a hospital for alcoholics, but he also published a book to reach all those that he could not reach through his medical practice. We need more people like that.
OMG!
You know, before this assclown came along, there was another person who wrote "the cure for alcoholism" her name was Susan Powter. Remember her? "Stop the insanity!" She wrote a real arrogant book about how you didn't need AA! Ohhh AA was cute and we helped some, but eating right and PERSONAL EMPOWERMENT. She sold a gabillion copies...and then she imfamously did an almost Mel Gibsonian bender!
This is exactly what I was posting about^^^ when a non alcoholic reads a book and becomes an "expert"
TO ME THIS IS LIKE YOU SAYING I KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE BLACK BECAUSE I DROVE THROUGH A GHETTO.
It doesn't matter whether it's ANYONE, husband, wife, Mother, Father, brother, sister or boyfriend. An addict is an addict and they will destroy everyone close to them eventually.
That is how powerful an addiction is. It doesn't just grab and hold onto the addict but all who are close to the addict. It really is a devil in that bottle, and it will wreck havoc on all, not just the addict himself.
In a way the loved ones are just in the same boat as the addict. The addict is the only one who can really control the drinking, certainly no one else can but the addict cannot control it. Everyone ends up trying to gain some kind of control, and everyone pretends things are normal.
That's why one of the principle beliefs of AA and Al-anon is to accept that you are powerless over alcohol and that the lives have become unmanageable.
I don't think anyone who is not an alcoholic can save an alcoholic. AA works because other alcoholics can provide insight, no non-alcoholic really can. It's something they alone understand and they alone can help one another. But the enablers which end up being almost all the loved ones don't see their own illness or condition and like the alcoholic, it's really they themselves that are the problem, it's not the alcoholic. It's their denial, their pretending normalcy, their co-dependency and they have to stop blaming too.
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