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So I guess this is partially gonna turn into another failure report, but what the heck, I have a couple of those under my belt here already, and the already disgraced can't be shamed... the first sutitle is sort of backround, and the second is the actual problem, I don't want tips of what to do with the girl in particular, but help with the stuff i discribe under the second subtitle. My previous threads have failed to convey this, but I'm giving a more serious try as I'm for once posting sober.
Last time
I reactivated my profile a while ago on an online dating website, to give it a new try, did quite a bit of browsing selected our a number of potentially interesting candidates, and messaged a few of them.
I wasn't too exited about some of the replies, and messaged a few more, and got into a more extensive mail exchange, that turned into a textingfrenzy more or less...
We exchanged pictures, it was getting further than i thought possible through texting, and she sent me some naked but concealing pictures, and demanded some of me, which I did send her.
She said she liked what she saw(I definatly liked what I saw ) and we decided to meet at her place for dinner...
The texting got even more intense, and one morning she sent me a message that she had been dreaming about me.
So we met for dinner, ate at her place, she showed me around her apartment, some light smalltalk, and when we were finished eating, the awkward silence comes.
She had been rather shallow, as every other sentence ended up referencing how she'd used her good looks for one end or another... which did bug me, but what buggs me even more is that regardless of if she wasn't as good a match as I had thought prior to meeting her, I can never carry a conversation for long, with anyone, which brings me to the actual issue. the above is re-occuring, and the almost mandatory end to the dates I've had, which drives me nuts.
The problem
I have always been a loner, even feeling lonely when Í'm among people but when I came to the university a couple of years ago I decided to be on a mission to learn social skills. I can't count number of pubs, extracurricular activities, nightclubs, positions at the student organizations etc I've been involved with, it took away my shyness/anxiety in terms of approaching people, but I still can't carry a conversation through and keep it interesting for a listener, and I seldom find myself having anything to say that I think anyone would like to listen to. It leaves both me and my "conversational victim" in an awkward position unless there is other people to catch the fall...
The idea is to make a positive connection, not to torture whomever I'm interested in.
So even though i have exposed myself to social stuff, I don't get any better by the "practice", and I need tips on things I could do to get better.
It's at a point where i'm almost considering if it's malicious of me to approach, knowing that the risk of the awkward silence I hate is so likely to come up.
To be clear I don't need anyone to recognize that I'm socially inept, I'm not dumb enough to miss that, but I need a way of overcoming it.
i have the same issue. its maddening because many see me as well rounded or well informed but thats just because i have a great rote memory for dates and facts so it appears that im actually more well rounded than i really am. im clueless about a lot of things but then again such things i perceive to be shallow or irrelevant. one thing that is a real issue is that of politics. although im told i have a lot of interesting ideas about politics, its really because i refuse to take a stand on anything and simply don't trust the media and am skeptical about politicians in general. so i just dont bother saying anything because i figure it will just come out all wrong
i think it boils down to chemistry with another person and you just can't force being somebody that youre not. you either relate comfortably or you don't
and if you are questioning your social skills, then no youre not socially inept. if you were it wouldn't bother you
In my opinion, it is important to be comfortable, relaxed and at ease when meeting someone for a date. Conversation should flow naturaly, without either party having to try too hard to keep it going. If you arent very comfortable talking, be the listener and let her do the talking. most women love to talk and if you can show her that youre an active listener, she will likely talk even more and happily do so. ask open ended questions, instead of yes/no questions which bring you right back to silence or seeking another topic. Silence doesnt always have to be awkward, unless you make it awkward. And once again, be at ease and relaxed and those things should take care of themselves.;l As adults, we often tend to use a heavy filter on what we say, because we are affraid of the reaction, if we say something silly or unwanted. Getting rid of that filter can be so incredibly beneficial. Just say anything that comes to your mind, and never worry if someone thinks its silly or misplaced. When we are young, these filters dont exist and we simply blurt out anything that comes to mind, make silly noises, sing random tunes or whistle. Be more like that. We dont always have to sound sensible, well thought out and on point.
The problem
I have always been a loner, even feeling lonely when Í'm among people but when I came to the university a couple of years ago I decided to be on a mission to learn social skills. I can't count number of pubs, extracurricular activities, nightclubs, positions at the student organizations etc I've been involved with, it took away my shyness/anxiety in terms of approaching people, but I still can't carry a conversation through and keep it interesting for a listener, and I seldom find myself having anything to say that I think anyone would like to listen to. It leaves both me and my "conversational victim" in an awkward position unless there is other people to catch the fall...
The idea is to make a positive connection, not to torture whomever I'm interested in.
So even though i have exposed myself to social stuff, I don't get any better by the "practice", and I need tips on things I could do to get better.
It's at a point where i'm almost considering if it's malicious of me to approach, knowing that the risk of the awkward silence I hate is so likely to come up.
To be clear I don't need anyone to recognize that I'm socially inept, I'm not dumb enough to miss that, but I need a way of overcoming it.
I think you are just a perfectionist. I highly doubt that you really have problems with conversation. It is not always one person's responsibility to carry on a conversation,
Most people think being charismatic is the funny things you say, or being loud or boisterous and whatever it is, but really, charisma is just a couple of simple things. Reacting with enthusiasm to what somebody says. That’s charisma, in my opinion.
personally i found a few rounds of speed dating helpful for my small talk skills with women i don't know well. the speed dating is just to practice basically. if you happen to meet someone cool there, great, but that's not the point. i tried to find something interesting about these random people and drive to that in the conversations. also paid attention to what i found boring (there's lots of it at speed dating, the same questions over and over) so i could avoid that kind of talk in future situations
personally i think it's fine to have a drink or two (no more) at speed dating to ease the awkward factor, although some here will disagree (they have a point, it's important not to rely on booze to overcome reticence)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
Reacting with enthusiasm to what somebody says. That’s charisma, in my opinion.
yes this. if you can actually be excited about something in the other person, the conversation will flow. if you have to search a little to find it, that's OK. it sounds to me like there wasn't much about this girl you were excited about, except how she was easy on the eyes. and you even turned that into a negative. maybe there was something cool about her, and you just didn't try hard enough to find it (or maybe not, but you get the point). you guys were way past speed dating level, you should have found something cool about her by then
also... what happened at the end of the date? did you just go home?
In my opinion, it is important to be comfortable, relaxed and at ease when meeting someone for a date. Conversation should flow naturaly, without either party having to try too hard to keep it going. If you arent very comfortable talking, be the listener and let her do the talking. most women love to talk and if you can show her that youre an active listener, she will likely talk even more and happily do so. ask open ended questions, instead of yes/no questions which bring you right back to silence or seeking another topic. Silence doesnt always have to be awkward, unless you make it awkward. And once again, be at ease and relaxed and those things should take care of themselves.;l As adults, we often tend to use a heavy filter on what we say, because we are affraid of the reaction, if we say something silly or unwanted. Getting rid of that filter can be so incredibly beneficial. Just say anything that comes to your mind, and never worry if someone thinks its silly or misplaced. When we are young, these filters dont exist and we simply blurt out anything that comes to mind, make silly noises, sing random tunes or whistle. Be more like that. We dont always have to sound sensible, well thought out and on point.
+1 to all of this. i found speed dating helped ease the inhibition/filter. after 10 rounds of saying the same socially prescribed intro conversation over and over again ("have you ever done this before? what do you do for a living? did you hear about the local sports team?") i stopped giving a f*ck about this and tried out other conversational approaches
Most people think being charismatic is the funny things you say, or being loud or boisterous and whatever it is, but really, charisma is just a couple of simple things. Reacting with enthusiasm to what somebody says. That’s charisma, in my opinion.
Much easier said than done, just like having self confidence. There is no set rule to being a good conversationalist. However, being well read, well rounded and informed does help with providing topics to talk about. Plus, it is much more likely you will have something to say about something she says if you have knowledge of a broad range of topics. Having opinions and being able to express them also helps. Even if you are talking about something trivial, let your passion shine through. Nothing kills a conversation quicker than disinterested ambivalence. Also practice does help. You can use the information you gleaned from previous conversations in future conversations. For example, the first time I meet someone of a profession I am unfamiliar with, I will be highly inquisitive and ask all about it. Who knows? You may meet someone later who has the same job and now all of a sudden you have the inside scoop you can use to build rapport.
i have the same issue. its maddening because many see me as well rounded or well informed but thats just because i have a great rote memory for dates and facts so it appears that im actually more well rounded than i really am. im clueless about a lot of things but then again such things i perceive to be shallow or irrelevant. one thing that is a real issue is that of politics. although im told i have a lot of interesting ideas about politics, its really because i refuse to take a stand on anything and simply don't trust the media and am skeptical about politicians in general. so i just dont bother saying anything because i figure it will just come out all wrong
i think it boils down to chemistry with another person and you just can't force being somebody that youre not. you either relate comfortably or you don't
and if you are questioning your social skills, then no youre not socially inept. if you were it wouldn't bother you
Well for me politics and religion are topics i could lose myself in and talk about for any extended period of time, but since my opionions often deviate, and since most intelligent people are passionate about one bordering subject or another that connects to these types of topics i try to avoid them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdysseusNY
personally i found a few rounds of speed dating helpful for my small talk skills with women i don't know well. the speed dating is just to practice basically. if you happen to meet someone cool there, great, but that's not the point. i tried to find something interesting about these random people and drive to that in the conversations. also paid attention to what i found boring (there's lots of it at speed dating, the same questions over and over) so i could avoid that kind of talk in future situations
personally i think it's fine to have a drink or two (no more) at speed dating to ease the awkward factor, although some here will disagree (they have a point, it's important not to rely on booze to overcome reticence)
yes this. if you can actually be excited about something in the other person, the conversation will flow. if you have to search a little to find it, that's OK. it sounds to me like there wasn't much about this girl you were excited about, except how she was easy on the eyes. and you even turned that into a negative. maybe there was something cool about her, and you just didn't try hard enough to find it (or maybe not, but you get the point). you guys were way past speed dating level, you should have found something cool about her by then
also... what happened at the end of the date? did you just go home?
Before I met that girl in real life it seemed like everything about her was cool, afterwards not so much...
when I realized it failed i thought I might as well try to at least get laid before it's over...I did sleep over at her place, and we did kiss, though she didn't give herself into the kiss, which made me feel even more awkward... and not going home to sleep was a misstake that made for a long and wasted morning... we sent a couple of messages, and because of how it had been before she met I suggested it had simply not been our night and that we might give it a new shot, maybe things will be better, but she didn't want to and that was that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdysseusNY
+1 to all of this. i found speed dating helped ease the inhibition/filter. after 10 rounds of saying the same socially prescribed intro conversation over and over again ("have you ever done this before? what do you do for a living? did you hear about the local sports team?") i stopped giving a f*ck about this and tried out other conversational approaches
I've never heard of any speeddating going on anywhere near me, not sure but that might be an american thing and I live across the duckpond in sweden... only ever saw it in a few movies.
The standard boring questions are a problem for me as well, they do nothing but buy me time before the awkward silence occurs, and once/if I find something to pick up on from those, like her passion for whatever interest she has that I can have her elaborate about, I can't go back to the standardized questions format without sounding like an employer having her on an interview for scrutiny.
What do your mean with other conversational approaches? I can't think of more ways than open ended questions to go about it, and half my problem is running out of the open ended questions, because it turns into an interview, and I can't figure out how or when to throw in a flirt...
Much easier said than done, just like having self confidence. There is no set rule to being a good conversationalist. However, being well read, well rounded and informed does help with providing topics to talk about. Plus, it is much more likely you will have something to say about something she says if you have knowledge of a broad range of topics. Having opinions and being able to express them also helps. Even if you are talking about something trivial, let your passion shine through. Nothing kills a conversation quicker than disinterested ambivalence. Also practice does help. You can use the information you gleaned from previous conversations in future conversations. For example, the first time I meet someone of a profession I am unfamiliar with, I will be highly inquisitive and ask all about it. Who knows? You may meet someone later who has the same job and now all of a sudden you have the inside scoop you can use to build rapport.
The bolded part is very true, and also highlights another problem area for me;
how do you turn someone back once they have lost interest enough to give these short, disinterested answers? Once i'm in a conversation where the other part goes like that i feel like it's my fault the convo went sideways, and need a way to redeem the situation...what to do?
not sure where you live in sweden but i would be surprised if they didn't have it in places like stockholm since it's pretty common in metro areas here in the US. but maybe you're right, it could be a USA thing or even just a east and west coast USA thing as far as I know
i can't really describe the other approaches but adhom already put it pretty well (there's no set rules, etc)
also you have to actually care about their responses to the open ended questions and follow them up accordingly and well. i wonder if that's part of the problem here (not being accusatory, really just wondering if that's part of the problem and you seem just a little bit disconnected/judgmental of these gals)
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) and we decided to meet at her place for dinner...
