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I've seen sexual harassment in the workplace from an attractive man that appeared to be welcomed by the recipients and that I knew I couldn't have gotten away with if I'd wanted to do that (which I didn't want to do). But he knew not to pull that stuff against other women in the same workplace who wouldn't have tolerated it. So it's not fair to act like all women are bothered by the same level of harassment.
Okay, but is that so complicated?
If the woman welcomes the attention, fine. If she doesn't, back off. Harassment occurs when women (or in rare cases, men) do not welcome the attention, but the person persists despite their wishes.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,962,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
Men are visual creatures and sometimes I can't help but to stare especially since I've been trained to do that by TV/movies/magazines/newspaper ads/ websites.
Yes, yes you can. You can control yourself. And stop with the "I've been trained" crap.
I would have to check out that site but it seems obvious to me what you described is not harassment. Continued unwanted attention is harassment. Attention that makes the object of that attention feel unnerved or threatened.
Being looked at (not stared down), smiled at or talked to is civil behavior. Most people can interpret if that person doesn't want even that level of attention and backs off.
If the woman welcomes the attention, fine. If she doesn't, back off. Harassment occurs when women (or in rare cases, men) do not welcome the attention, but the person persists despite their wishes.
The problem is if she's offended before I notice she doesn't like it.
Once I notice that it's very easy for me to stop looking.
#Yesallwomen says that men should just know what women will find annoying or threatening. So I am trying to find out what that entails.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,962,945 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
I will work on it. But it seems by your attitude that you've never done anything wrong and you have no flaws.
I will try to not even stare at women in media. I will get rid of my celebrity magazines.
Of course I have flaws, and of course I've done things that are wrong. But once I'm aware I'm doing something rude/wrong I change my behavior. That is what people do. Knowing you're behaving rudely and continuing to do so and blaming society is a sign of poor character, not just a "flaw".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros
Did you read where I said I'll work on it? so you also have no flaws?
Work on it? Why "work" on it? Why not just stop it.
I was reading yesallwomen, and some said men confuse attention and harassment. I'm curious what's the diff? Men are visual creatures and sometimes I can't help but to stare especially since I've been trained to do that by TV/movies/magazines/newspaper ads/ websites. The women on those can't see you back, and hence can't be offended.
I've never said rude sexual things to women, but I know I've stared too much.
So teach me, what's the diff between attention (good) and harassment (bad).
And don't be angry with me. I'm just doing what #Yesallwomen requests. I'm trying to learn so I can make you more comfortable in my presence. I don't want to offend any of you anymore.
Discreet glances are okay. Blatant stares are considered aggression and an unspoken demand that the woman in question return your attention. This is exactly what women characterize as creepy or harrassing attention. If the woman catches you in your discreet glance be respectful and smile in a non-threatening manner; that is, if you get caught in looking, you'll have to turn it into a low level flirt. I know it's a lot to keep up with, but you said making women feel comfortable in your presence was important to you, so this is what is required.
So teach me, what's the diff between attention (good) and harassment (bad).
Harassment is unwanted attention.
And in most cases, you know when your attention is unwanted. If you don't know, assume that your attention is unwanted.
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