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Marriage is a contract. Pure and simple. Whatever religions see in it has no meaning in our segregated courts of law.
So if it is a contract, why should it be between different genders? The courts have decided it doesn't matter.
Why should it be between two adults only? The courts weren't challenged yet, but won't oppose a group asking for polygamy (civil rights overrule).
Why would single people be punished by a higher tax code, limited visitation and inheritance rights ? (that is an economic reasoning, albeit justified to ask which courts will reject).
Why can humans not marry their pet dog, horse, Porsche etc? That too would be easy to deny by courts as the consent by an animal or object is impossible.
There are approximately 30,000 polygamists living in Canada, Mexico, and the American West. FLDS polygamist men in Colorado City, for example, will legally marry their first wife and then "spiritually" marry their other wives. Not being legally married, the spiritually married wives are considered single mothers and qualify for welfare and other public assistance. In Colorado City, the polygamous society receives over six million dollars a year in public funds.
In 2002, 78% of the residents living on the Arizona side of Colorado City received food stamps. The FLDS residents received $8 in government services for every dollar they paid in tax. Residents in the rest of the county received only $1 for each dollar of tax that they paid.
I say we legalize polygamy and let these men start supporting their families. If the women are married, they won't qualify for as much public assistance. I fully agree with giving people the help that they need, but when it comes to FLDS, they are deliberately trying to get as much money as they can from the government. They call it "bleeding the beast" and I think legalizing polygamy will help put a big plug in this waste.
I was reading the thread on refugees with more than one wife.
As I was reading it I starting thinking, should the US legalize polygamy?
If yes, why?
If no, why?
We support equality in many areas in our society. Allowing it would mean to equal treatment under the law. Why ban something between consenting adults as to what type of family they want to raise?
We should not legalize polygamy because many constructs of our society depend upon a firm definition of a family. The most glaring examples are in immigration law, welfare law and divorce/custody proceedings. If all parties could be married to multiple people then entire concept of marriage would water down to the point of becoming trivial.
If a person wants to be in multiple families, they're going to have to arrange to do that in a partnership or trust and powers of attorney for key right dessemination. They will need to be flexible, not setup the law to be flexible for them.
We should not legalize polygamy because many constructs of our society depend upon a firm definition of a family. The most glaring examples are in immigration law, welfare law and divorce/custody proceedings. If all parties could be married to multiple people then entire concept of marriage would water down to the point of becoming trivial.
If a person wants to be in multiple families, they're going to have to arrange to do that in a partnership or trust and powers of attorney for key right dessemination. They will need to be flexible, not setup the law to be flexible for them.
We already discussed that welfare law can currently be much more abused by "second wives" posing as single mothers. Divorce/custody ain't much different if we have a "single" mother suing for child support, but she obviously won't be able to get spousal support, or any property rights... which isn't really fair to her. So, prenup agreements would make divorce/custody much easier in theory.
Immigration law? A man can easily marry, cosponsor and divorce multiple ladies over time. I know a guy who did it 4 times But I can see that US government might want to alter its immigration law, or just put those polygamist families into a very long line... Although, don't forget that as of now, children of a US Citizen automatically are qualified to be american citizens. So, it's a question of second/third/forth wife... I personally wouldn't have any problems with it, if a guy has enough money to fully support each member of his family with adequate housing, health insurance, food, etc for 3 years (nah, make it 5/10 yrs), he will find a way to bring his "wives" one way or another... It costs about 20-50 grand to buy a fictitious marriage...
Father? He lives in Russia! Back support? I don't know if he ever had a formal child support order, and what amount it was. I doubt any of his wives filed for it (unless with his permission), for he gave each of them more money in cash than they would ever get from him through the court system. I am sure, if there's any amount of child support he's required to pay, it is very minimal (below poverty rate) and absolutely current. Did they commit a crime? Most certainly they broke a few rules But I cannot be absolutely sure.
Im not sure what the laws are in Russia, I was talking in the US.
Telling you if these ex wives filed for public assistance the department will require they file petition for child support. The state is not wanting to support a mans children if he is perfectly capable of it. If this guy is a millionaire his CS would be based on that income, assets and earning potential. I know how these things work.
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I understand the idea of support to a family which is reproductive and/or growing (or adopting children). Giving support to a childless family is sort of unreasonable, imho. Besides, wouldn't you think that a man and a woman living together and raising children, deserve same amount of support regardless whether their marriage is registered or not?
Im talking about supporting the idea of family, not financial support.
The powers that be have this idea that registered marriage is more conducive to raising a family, it generates more stability.
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Obviously the father can claim the children, if he's supporting both his second wife and his children and she's not against signing the waiver. Otherwise, if she's working herself and it makes more sense financially for he to include children to her, she can still be below poverty level (with all her children) and qualify for those benefits just because she was never officially married to the guy. Humans are smart and they will find what is most profitable to them
I also know how income tax works. Only one parent can claim a child in a given year. She can claim them or he can regardless of if she worked or if he financially supported her.
Im not sure what the laws are in Russia, I was talking in the US.
Telling you if these ex wives filed for public assistance the department will require they file petition for child support. The state is not wanting to support a mans children if he is perfectly capable of it. If this guy is a millionaire his CS would be based on that income, assets and earning potential. I know how these things work.
The guy lives in Russia and travels to US, he's US citizen and Russian citizen. The ladies all were Green Card holders, and lived here for some duration of times. Now, in all practicality, let's say he pays her minimal child support officially, and it is below poverty level, and most of his assets are not in US, nor registered personally to him, but rather to his business... I doubt the government would be able to deny public assistance to her. Based on what evidence? And I don't think she would apply for a welfare, or food stamps - where there's more red tape - but tuition assistance, medicaid, and such?
There are approximately 30,000 polygamists living in Canada, Mexico, and the American West. FLDS polygamist men in Colorado City, for example, will legally marry their first wife and then "spiritually" marry their other wives. Not being legally married, the spiritually married wives are considered single mothers and qualify for welfare and other public assistance. In Colorado City, the polygamous society receives over six million dollars a year in public funds.
In 2002, 78% of the residents living on the Arizona side of Colorado City received food stamps. The FLDS residents received $8 in government services for every dollar they paid in tax. Residents in the rest of the county received only $1 for each dollar of tax that they paid.
I say we legalize polygamy and let these men start supporting their families. If the women are married, they won't qualify for as much public assistance. I fully agree with giving people the help that they need, but when it comes to FLDS, they are deliberately trying to get as much money as they can from the government. They call it "bleeding the beast" and I think legalizing polygamy will help put a big plug in this waste.
Why then would these FLDS men bother to marry their other wives if they'd lose benefits?
The guy lives in Russia and travels to US, he's US citizen and Russian citizen. The ladies all were Green Card holders, and lived here for some duration of times. Now, in all practicality, let's say he pays her minimal child support officially, and it is below poverty level, and most of his assets are not in US, nor registered personally to him, but rather to his business... I doubt the government would be able to deny public assistance to her. Based on what evidence? And I don't think she would apply for a welfare, or food stamps - where there's more red tape - but tuition assistance, medicaid, and such?
In other words, he's a crook, and the US should change thousands of laws to accommodate crooks.
In other words, he's a crook, and the US should change thousands of laws to accommodate crooks.
He's just fine. All I say, and it was proven by other examples, if polygamy is allowed, it would be more difficult to request public assistance, not easier.
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But I can see that US government might want to alter its immigration law, or just put those polygamist families into a very long line... Although, don't forget that as of now, children of a US Citizen automatically are qualified to be american citizens. So, it's a question of second/third/forth wife... I personally wouldn't have any problems with it, if a guy has enough money to fully support each member of his family with adequate housing, health insurance, food, etc for 3 years (nah, make it 5/10 yrs), he will find a way to bring his "wives" one way or another... It costs about 20-50 grand to buy a fictitious marriage...
