Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Tips for spotting loyalty?
I have a broken picker.
I should start a thread, I’m just not nit ready for the “beat down”. If you know what I mean.
I'm fairly young, so maybe my opinions shouldn't hold much water but...
I feel like there are 3 kinds of people in relationships:
1. People who are serial cheaters
2. People who will cheat in the right circumstances
3. People who will never cheat
I know women who fall into categories 2 and 3, and my general sense is... the people who are the most open about themselves, and who they are, are the most likely to fall into category 3.
Women who fall into category 2 generally have been, in my estimation, people who are higher maintenance.
I don't have a large enough sample size to identify common traits in category 1, but I believe these are less common than the other types (among women, at least).
Granted, there likely are differences between men and women, but these are just my observations.
With all that said, I'm very cautious about getting involved seriously, so I've never been cheated on. But women I get to know can be very talkative about their pasts, and so, looking backwards, I can draw similarities between these people.
I'm fairly young, so maybe my opinions shouldn't hold much water but...
I feel like there are 3 kinds of people in relationships:
1. People who are serial cheaters
2. People who will cheat in the right circumstances
3. People who will never cheat
I know women who fall into categories 2 and 3, and my general sense is... the people who are the most open about themselves, and who they are, are the most likely to fall into category 3.
Women who fall into category 2 generally have been, in my estimation, people who are higher maintenance.
I don't have a large enough sample size to identify common traits in category 1, but I believe these are less common than the other types (among women, at least).
Granted, there likely are differences between men and women, but these are just my observations.
With all that said, I'm very cautious about getting involved seriously, so I've never been cheated on. But women I get to know can be very talkative about their pasts, and so, looking backwards, I can draw similarities between these people.
I'd love to say I fall into category 3 but...yes and no? I always drew my own line at sex (as in, genital contact/stimulation) with outside persons when in a monogamous, committed relationship. But ethically I define cheating as a violation of agreements and in particular where deception is involved. My ex had flares of jealousy over things as basic as me having too involved a conversation with another man, even if it wasn't an explicitly sexual one. And at the end of our relationship, I did find myself getting too emotionally close to another guy because things were horrible at home, and he was there for me to lean on. I was vulnerable. He was the kind of guy who takes advantage of that. I did not have sex with him, there was mostly a lot of talk, though he kissed me once, and it was later that day that I broke up with my ex. I felt the breakup was inevitable by that point and things were going too far. That kiss was the warning alarm, the waving flag, the sign I needed to end it with my ex. There were however a number of times I did not always tell him the truth, mostly because he was violent and terrifying to not just me but our kids. I didn't feel SAFE telling him the truth always.
I give myself some credit for the fact that those circumstances were not normal circumstances. It wasn't that some other guy came along who was better, or tempted me that much, or was really what I wanted. It was that the relationship I was in, was really, REALLY bad. Not just kind of bad, but seriously bad.
I think if one puts one's partner in a position where they are emotionally drowning, and selfishly doesn't care how they feel, then you really cannot blame them if they grab on to whatever bit of flotsam floats by in the form of another person. I really would not have blamed my ex if he'd cheated on me, but I don't think he did. He was pretty miserable too. He just preferred to be miserable with me, rather than without me.
I think I'm capable of "cheating" (however one chooses to define it) and I'm also capable of fidelity. It's all a matter of choice, not so much a matter of nature or inevitability. And frankly I think it's immature at best, and downright irresponsible and disingenuous at worst, to pretend otherwise. An adult needs to own the choices they make. Regardless of the circumstances, I definitely made some unwise ones that I regret. C'est la vie.
While I agree with most of that, I can’t find the logic to put any of the blame on the other person, who isn’t cheating. They’re both in the relationship together, it isn’t that one of has it worse, if they think they have it bad they should work it out with the person in the relationship.
In any of the situations I can think of that I was involved in, especially this last one - in this last one the relationship was pretty much new I was only in the relationship, honestly, because the person convinced me of how madly in love and crazy they were about me.
I did love him too, after awhile though. Not at first reconnection, he was the one who thought that it was some sort of fate that we had been brought together again, and he was going to do everything he could to make it work. So he convinced me, everyone noticing how happy he had become. I thought he was too good to be true, then thought maybe I was jaded, finally decided just because I wasn’t feeling crazy with butterflies that maybe this was what “mature” love was? He said I could do whatever I want and be whatever I wanted, blah blah blah he actually seemed very happy with me.
I’m not even talking about sex with another person, I’m talking about disloyalty. Flirting with other people when he thought I couldn’t hear , lying and saying it was his son calling, when I saw the name on his phone, it was is old gf. Telling another past gf that I was his “roommate”. We had talks, I told him if he wasn’t going to be honest and loyal it wasn’t going to work. He did it again.
It was so shocking to me that this was happening, I can’t put up with that kind of character flaw. So no I know I didn’t make him miserable, I know he wasn’t reaching out for some understanding woman, I was right there.
Oh definitely, some people are chronic deceivers and manipulators, RbccL. I don't argue that for an instant.
Blame was the wrong word. I could word it differently, I don't like the whole "blame" thing anyways. More accurate to say, is if you have let your home connection get so jacked up, through lack of love and nurturing, if it's reached a point where everyone is miserable every day...why would anybody expect someone to be loyal to THAT? How can anyone complain, "you didn't want me" when wanting him was like wanting to be punched in the face, or rather to walk on eggshells and watch him abuse our kids, to sit in a nasty garage while he smoked and smoked and ranted and raved for up to 12 hours straight sometimes. All the crap, why would I want that, why would anyone want that? And from his side of things, I'd become pretty cold and distant. I interacted with him mostly to "manage" him and keep him from flying off the rails as much as possible. There just wasn't much joy for either of us in it anymore.
If people let their relationship get that terrible, I think it's unreasonable to expect a partner to be loyal to suffering and misery. I tried to make things happier, many times, over the years, but that's not his philosophy of living. Incompatible values; he thinks that life is about "survival" and one crisis after another. I think it's to be grateful and optimistic about, it's for LIVING.
So rather than "you can't blame someone for cheating" it's more accurate to say, "I don't think you should be surprised" if your home relationship is that much of a wreck.
But doing your best to make your relationship healthy and happy, does not guarantee fidelity if the person is a chronic deceiver, manipulator, or cheater. I guess I figure that sometimes cheating is a cause, and sometimes it's a symptom.
There is that song by Pink Floyd, "...all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be." And that old philosophical question, "What is a man without his dreams?"
Rbccl, this was just another experience. It helped you pass the time and made you happy as well as brought a little pain. It's okay. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger - just take care to not let it make you bitter. Don't stop dreaming! Be happy with yourself until life gives you another soul to experience happiness with.
If a relationship doesn't last forever, that's okay too. It just provides an opportunity to experience more in this life. I'm sorry this one didn't work out, but its good that you are past it, and can now make room for the next experience.
My view is if someone is willing to lie about something small, there's a good chance they'll lie about something big, too.
That's a great indicator of disloyalty, I think.
I disagree.
I think that there are a lot of mitigating factors in why people lie, about what, and the degrees to which they do. I realize that my view is not a common one. That's fine. I don't challenge anyone's mindsets on this; we all have to move through the world in a way that works for us.
If a person is under some form of duress, if they feel unsafe, I will not assume or expect the truth. I'm always looking a bit deeper for the motivations. Really if a partner lies to me, I'm not going to get angry about that basic fact that they did, I'm going to ask them WHY. Because if someone lies to me, it means that they did not trust me to accept their truth in a manner that was ok for them. Did my partner believe I would withdraw my love if I found out something that he feels shameful about? Can we work on him trusting me to accept him, human flaws and all? Did my partner feel I would not forgive him for a choice he made? Why the lie? Of course, in my particular relationship, cheating also is not a big dealbreaker or hot-button issue like it is for most people. If my partner wished to have sex outside of our relationship, I would want to negotiate terms, but there are terms under which he could do this and I'd be ok with it. He knows this. So the premise for us is, "Whatever you need, there is probably a way that you could have that need met and I will be just fine and continue to love you. There should be no reason to lie. You are safe to tell the truth."
But to look at a person's background and motivations...it's not just a matter of some people spring forth into the world as good people or bad people. Things shaped their programming. Most people, I have found, lie at least some of the time. The ones who protest the loudest that they do not, are just trying to cover it up because they're anxious about other people lying to THEM. They want the righteous stance to condemn a liar as though they never do it themselves, even though they do. Sometimes even if they've been absolutely caught doing it, they still go on about how perpetually honest and virtuous they are. I expect most people to lie. Not always. And I know when someone can be counted on. But sometimes. I grew up learning to lie to protect myself. I had erratic parents whose anger was frightening. They could not be counted on to behave in consistent, predictable, or logical ways. So learning to lie was a matter of survival. I'm very good at it. But I also believe that a lie is a burden you must carry. Confide in even one "trusted" person to lighten the load, and you've put it at risk...so the only way to lie effectively, is to keep secrets silent and tell no one. Which gets...heavy. So knowing the cost, in my thinking, the reason must be a very critical one, for me to accept the burden of telling a lie. I don't do it often.
So lies don't make me angry or afraid. They don't really bother me that much.
I think it depends on the lie and how often it happens. Honesty is important in a relationship, but then, so is the ability to forgive someone for being human.
On the home front, I haven't heard anymore geese lately.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
