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it's harder for the average guy because women are seeking for the best they can find, even thought they are average.
This is exactly what the frustrated, dateless guys do, according to years of evidence gathered on this sub-forum. After questioning, to gather more info about their plight, it always turns out they're only interested in the most attractive women, and they protest loudly, when members suggest they consider women who are average in appearance, like they are.
You just described in a nutshell the crux of the problem the struggling men create for themselves.
I liked the dictionary post, so thanks for that, jayrandom. It wasn't meant to say, "actually, the judgmental person here is objectively right, here is proof." There was the concept of recognizing that this is "cultural baggage we're saddled with." Yes. One can disagree with an idea, yet recognize that many hold it.
Gonna have to disagree about class and sophistication, though. Having been fortunate, even privileged, enough to have tasted both in my lifetime.
Personally, my idea of classy is something like intellectual debate and conversation, reasonable attempt at writing using correct grammar, spelling, punctuation, capitalization, and not peppering your speech with emojis like a 12 year old girl. Art museums, brunch at the French place downtown, symphony and jazz shows, fancy cheese and fine couture. As "class" implies a certain socioeconomic position in life, if not what you earn, at least who you socially network with and can enjoy the benefits of. I got invited up to a luxury resort in the mountains, my boyfriend and I spent a couple nights there this last weekend, courtesy of our lawyer friend. It was downright, dare I say, classy. Cost me nothing, but food and firewood contributions. It's all about who ya know.
And of the 20+ of us invited and attending, living the good life with our good friends, not one of them thinks that there's anything morally wrong with casual sex, though not all of us would choose to do it, we've got better things to do than sit around spewing emojis and judgment on the lifestyles of the people around us.
I've had my flings. It was fun. No regrets. I've moved on to a longterm commitment, seems it's ultimately more what works for my life. And a certain person can think of me as a "sl_t" if s/he likes, I'm too busy having fun to care all that much.
Name calling...not so classy, actually.
This thread is silly, and only reinforces my belief that almost nothing is objectively true. We're all floating around in our own little reality-bubbles made up of our perceptions and ideologies and worldviews and opinions, the world through my eyes is very different than the world through the eyes of a religious person or a bitter lonely man of any flavor...the truth is what you have chosen to believe. What if other people have chosen not to believe it? You gonna beat 'em over the head until they stop disagreeing with you? Pray for them? Why is it so threatening to understand that other people might be living a different experience than you are, and there's room in the world for quite a variety of lifestyles and mindsets?
It's so tiresome to hear so many people talk about whatever they are doing in life as being the only right way, or the only possible way, or that they have no choice, this or that is just "how it is." No, it's just how it is FOR YOU.
Personal observation that the more one proclaims class is in inverse proportion to having class.
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This is exactly what the frustrated, dateless guys do, according to years of evidence gathered on this sub-forum. After questioning, to gather more info about their plight, it always turns out they're only interested in the most attractive women, and they protest loudly, when members suggest they consider women who are average in appearance, like they are.
You just described in a nutshell the crux of the problem the struggling men create for themselves.
You're the one generalizing now..you clearly mistake when men say they want somebody they're attracted to as meaning a 10 when that's not the case.unlike women men have a pretty diverse taste to what they're physically attracted to.
Women seem to also like to use hyperbole on here to prove a point when discussing men's taste..according to some women on here there are only plain janes or models there's no in between and if you're not attracted to plain Janes then you must only be into supermodels lol
Personal observation that the more one proclaims class is in inverse proportion to having class.
Perhaps. I think of class as something I've experienced, rather than something I HAVE. I can hang with the metalheads and gutter-punks at a concert one night, and clean up and step up to fit in with a more sophisticated crowd the next day. So would I say I'm classy? Only that I can be if I want to, I've done it, and I can pull it off well when it's called for.
I don't see it as related to one's sexual choices necessarily, but there are ways and ways to do things. You can be an overly dramatic human being who pops from one train wreck of a relationship to the next, being irresponsible with your reproductive and health choices, and be not so classy and indeed of dubious merit to society in general. Or you could be like a number of the sexually adventurous people I've known who take absolute control and responsibility for their reproduction and health choices, and who simply don't tie their sexuality to their morality except in terms of certain ethics such as honest behavior and kindness to others. Those for whom sex is not a precious coin to only be traded for a lifetime familial bond, it's something to be enjoyed for its own sake.
But obviously one's life experience will paint a different picture. A lot of what I've lived you simply would not see in more rural towns, for instance. *shrug*
Again, "this is how it is for me" not "this is how it is."
it's harder for the average guy because women are seeking for the best they can find, even thought they are average.
You make it sound like this is unusual. Iisn't everyone dating trying to find the best match for them? And the best match is often a "normal," decent, average person.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
You make it sound like this is unusual. Iisn't everyone dating trying to find the best match for them? And the best match is often a "normal," decent, average person.
Seriously. I'm trying to find the best match for me. We all should be.
You're the one generalizing now..you clearly mistake when men say they want somebody they're attracted to as meaning a 10 when that's not the case.unlike women men have a pretty diverse taste to what they're physically attracted to.
Women seem to also like to use hyperbole on here to prove a point when discussing men's taste..according to some women on here there are only plain janes or models there's no in between and if you're not attracted to plain Janes then you must only be into supermodels lol
I think it's fair to make a very loose generalization that if you asked straight men what factors were important in choosing a woman partner, looks would top the list for many, probably most.
But what does that mean? Again, one man's 10 is another man's 4. I've seen diverse taste in action, and I've known plenty of men who don't think that supermodel types are even attractive. When a guy says "looks" I do not believe that there is one yardstick to measure all of us.
And I've known plenty of men who might consider looks first, but even if the woman they are considering is gorgeous (to them) there are other factors that can break the deal. For some men, a hot woman who is stupid or can't hold a conversation, won't get a second date. For some, they want a virtuous lass to marry, or a woman with no kids. My own boyfriend disqualified a very pretty woman he was interested in, because she has serious health problems that she doesn't go 5 minutes without talking about. Looks might be the first hurdle to clear for female candidates, but they only take us so far.
But if you asked straight women to tell you their top factors in selecting male partners, no way would looks top the list. I'd lay money on "confidence" being at the top for most women. Looks might be in there somewhere, but they won't be the first consideration. And if a man meets other criteria for us, he can easily get a pass for his looks if they're not his strongest quality, assuming he's not Quasimodo-Igor-Elephant Man level ugly.
But what does that mean? Again, one man's 10 is another man's 4. I've seen diverse taste in action, and I've known plenty of men who don't think that supermodel types are even attractive. When a guy says "looks" I do not believe that there is one yardstick to measure all of us.
And I've known plenty of men who might consider looks first, but even if the woman they are considering is gorgeous (to them) there are other factors that can break the deal. For some men, a hot woman who is stupid or can't hold a conversation, won't get a second date. For some, they want a virtuous lass to marry, or a woman with no kids. My own boyfriend disqualified a very pretty woman he was interested in, because she has serious health problems that she doesn't go 5 minutes without talking about. Looks might be the first hurdle to clear for female candidates, but they only take us so far.
Totally true this point needs made more often on here.
I think it's fair to make a very loose generalization that if you asked straight men what factors were important in choosing a woman partner, looks would top the list for many, probably most.
But what does that mean? Again, one man's 10 is another man's 4. I've seen diverse taste in action, and I've known plenty of men who don't think that supermodel types are even attractive. When a guy says "looks" I do not believe that there is one yardstick to measure all of us.
And I've known plenty of men who might consider looks first, but even if the woman they are considering is gorgeous (to them) there are other factors that can break the deal. For some men, a hot woman who is stupid or can't hold a conversation, won't get a second date. For some, they want a virtuous lass to marry, or a woman with no kids. My own boyfriend disqualified a very pretty woman he was interested in, because she has serious health problems that she doesn't go 5 minutes without talking about. Looks might be the first hurdle to clear for female candidates, but they only take us so far.
But if you asked straight women to tell you their top factors in selecting male partners, no way would looks top the list. I'd lay money on "confidence" being at the top for most women. Looks might be in there somewhere, but they won't be the first consideration. And if a man meets other criteria for us, he can easily get a pass for his looks if they're not his strongest quality, assuming he's not Quasimodo-Igor-Elephant Man level ugly.
I agree on the first part..I don't know any man who's only criteria for a women is "hot" and would put up with anything as long as she's hot enough..maybe teenagers but not most sane adults..
As far as women putting looks further down on the list then men I disagree..the fact that most couples are pretty evenly matched shows women aren't any more or less flexible about looks then men..
Let's be honest most people are as shallow as their options allow them to be..A lot of people saying they don't care about looks much probably are average looking or unattractive and can't afford to be picky about looks..where as good looking people can have their cake and eat it too..they. And can go for someone they're compatible with and also extremely physically attracted to..not everyone has that luxury..
I've seen how women react to my good looking friend believe me women are not any less shallow or motivated by looks then men lol
Last edited by JBT1980; 01-02-2018 at 11:41 AM..
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