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This sounds like me, and I’m 37. Been in two brief relationships in my lifetime, the first one as a senior in high school and the most recent one in October 2017. The one in October 2017 was just using me for money.
Both of those relationships lasted a few months a piece.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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I agree with JR_C, sometimes it is a confluence of many factors, none of which by itself is necessarily a major issue.
I think one of my problems is that I want it to happen "organically". I want someone to be in my life for platonic reasons, and for us to develop feelings for each other over time, without going on formal dates. I have developed feelings for people in that way several times, but when they find out, they either want to be just friends or don't want me in their life at all.
I feel that in many cases, the same qualities that make a woman comfortable to be in a man's life for platonic reasons may cause her to be uncomfortable with him having feelings. The absence of sexual aggression may be good for a male friend, but apparently not if the male friend develops feelings for them at any point. That's surely not true of every woman, but seems to be the case with the women for whom I've developed feelings.
I'd be wary. Maybe not of going out with, because how would I know his history, really, until we went out? But of pursuing a relationship? Yeah, wary is the word.
There are a lot of social and interpersonal skills that, if you haven't had the chance to hone them or put them into practice within that context by that particular stage of the game...the adjustment is quite possibly more than I'd necessarily be game for. And people who've been totally alone in that context for that amount of time, in my observation, have their routines and patterns and lifestyle down, and aren't necessarily easily able to shift that at all to make room for another person.
I'm definitely not saying that one has to have been some kind of socialite, either. I met my spouse when we were 35 (me) and 40 (him). I had been in one rather serious relationship (five years cohabiting), following a stretch of really pretty casual dating through my twenties...I had adolescent "relationships," but my adult relationships were confined to dating around a bit in my twenties while I was in school and working a pretty demanding job with weird hours, and that one fairly serious relationship. My husband had been in a relationship as a college student that was serious enough to have resulted in an engagement that was broken off before anything progressed too far along those lines, and then followed by upper twenties through thirties of short-term, casual dating relationships, a few friends with benefits situations,etc. He was active duty Navy part of his thirties, as well, and did several deployments that led him to not really seek any attachments for a stretch there.
But neither of these backgrounds is "never had any relationships." Just that each of us hit the upper thirties/forty milestone with a single serious relationship in our adult years, and lots of casual dating.
The guy I lived with for five years? Never any previous relationships. Period. And it showed. Shepherding somebody through "How to Healthily Interact in Functional Intimate Relationships 101" was challenging enough when that person was 30-ish. Add another ten years of straight up bachelor mode to that? Eh. Not really for me.
I do agree with this, but am wondering what were some of the things the other person needed shepherding through. As you mentioned, it could be likely that those who haven't been in relationships before by middle age could be very set on their own routines already, so I could imagine that when they need to compromise and make sacrifices to those routines that they may encounter some difficulties. Plus, when you have been by yourself for so long and haven't been in a relationship that requires thinking as a couple, you may need to learn quite a few things for the first time.
I also agree with other posters who have said it depends on the specific circumstances and reasons why the person has not ever been in a relationship. That could very well determine whether pursuing a relationship with that person would result in a lot more problems than one bargained for or not. Just because some people may not have been in a relationship before doesn't necessarily mean they are not well adjusted, but it does set off a warning flag.
But also consider that as one gets older, it generally becomes harder to meet people and find "the one". So that also could be part of why a person may end up middle aged and having never had a relationship.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAlbert
But also consider that as one gets older, it generally becomes harder to meet people and find "the one". So that also could be part of why a person may end up middle aged and having never had a relationship.
Yeah, I agree with this. If you never meet anybody who likes you back in high school or college, then you get out into the working world and you go to work, do your eight hours (or ten) and go home to go to sleep before you have to get up and work the next day...you're not meeting a lot of people. So that time when it would be natural to meet people in a place you have to go every day has past. Unless you meet a co-worker...but the "me too" movement seems to imply that any effort to be with a co-worker could be harassment.
So if you're someone like me, who has difficulties with social interaction (but is not autistic, just shy/socially inept), and has had feelings for people, but has never had them reciprocated in the past, then you're not really interested in the possibility of being accused of harassment, and if you have feelings for someone at work, that's not something you're going to pursue.
So basically you're left with online dating or maybe finding someone in pursuit of a hobby. For the latter, you have to have a hobby that involves meeting other people, and not everybody does. If your hobbies involve computer software, then you don't have to leave the house much at all on weekends, and when you do, it isn't for the purpose of meeting people. And, personally, when I browse online dating sites, I see people to whom I am sexually attracted, but no one inspires "that feeling" where I want to meet them.
(I suspect most people, or at least most males, are choosing people to interact with on social media just based on being sexually attracted to the pics in their profile. But I don't know, maybe some people feel a romantic spark based on online profiles...I certainly do not experience that. I have to have some interaction with the person in the real world before I would feel that way.)
So yeah...if it didn't happen in school, it just gets harder and harder to find that first relationship as time goes on. And then you find yourself at 41...50....60...80...never having found anyone who reciprocates your feelings. And that sucks, it truly sucks.
I do agree with this, but am wondering what were some of the things the other person needed shepherding through. As you mentioned, it could be likely that those who haven't been in relationships before by middle age could be very set on their own routines already, so I could imagine that when they need to compromise and make sacrifices to those routines that they may encounter some difficulties. Plus, when you have been by yourself for so long and haven't been in a relationship that requires thinking as a couple, you may need to learn quite a few things for the first time.
I also agree with other posters who have said it depends on the specific circumstances and reasons why the person has not ever been in a relationship. That could very well determine whether pursuing a relationship with that person would result in a lot more problems than one bargained for or not. Just because some people may not have been in a relationship before doesn't necessarily mean they are not well adjusted, but it does set off a warning flag.
But also consider that as one gets older, it generally becomes harder to meet people and find "the one". So that also could be part of why a person may end up middle aged and having never had a relationship.
I have been thinking about that, too.
And I wonder if my happiness with a guy who had been a bachelor for so very long, was that I was in a mode of life to want some independence?
I mean, my inexperienced fella is nevertheless the most considerate and thoughtful of men. Way, way more than a number of experienced guys I have known.
But like, we have separate living spaces, and this is comfortable to us both. We can afford a home with enough room for each of us to have a bedroom and bathroom of our own. We each buy our own groceries and have our own dedicated spaces in the kitchen for our own stuff. We do not commingle finances. He pays an agreed-upon flat amount for his share of our housing, and I take that and pay the bills...but I'm an accounting nerd and I LIKE being in charge of things like that. I'm very good at it.
The way we handle our living logistics, it's more like a roommate situation than it is how most couples live, and yet I don't feel we lack for romance or intimacy or quality time. So he's not having any difficulty adjusting to sharing life with me, I mean, he's had roommates before, if not necessarily one he was having sex with.
And we just don't seem to have a lot of the issues that many couples do in terms of conflict or communication problems. When we need to talk, we talk. We don't fight, neither of us wants to, neither of us is really into that. We have very compatible temperaments, which is to say...very chill, too lazy to get all riled up about much of anything. I think part of what works for us is that neither of us looks to the other, to solve our problems. We each act like we are on our own when it comes to a lot of things that other people might expect a partner to handle for them. Like we were both pretty sick recently, and for the most part we stayed in our own spaces and each took care of ourselves. If I have car trouble, I call AAA, not him...it's what I pay them for. Some might feel, that if you're going to live like that, why bother being in a relationship...I would say, because both of us feel that the other is an enhancement to our life. Because we want to. For the good stuff.
Maybe the reason I'm happy with an inexperienced person is that the way "most people" do "normal" relationships wasn't really working well for me, I dunno. I'd seen enough unhappy couples and I was in one for a long time...maybe it was just time to do something completely different.
Yeah, I agree with this. If you never meet anybody who likes you back in high school or college, then you get out into the working world and you go to work, do your eight hours (or ten) and go home to go to sleep before you have to get up and work the next day...you're not meeting a lot of people. So that time when it would be natural to meet people in a place you have to go every day has past. Unless you meet a co-worker...but the "me too" movement seems to imply that any effort to be with a co-worker could be harassment.
So if you're someone like me, who has difficulties with social interaction (but is not autistic, just shy/socially inept), and has had feelings for people, but has never had them reciprocated in the past, then you're not really interested in the possibility of being accused of harassment, and if you have feelings for someone at work, that's not something you're going to pursue.
So basically you're left with online dating or maybe finding someone in pursuit of a hobby. For the latter, you have to have a hobby that involves meeting other people, and not everybody does. If your hobbies involve computer software, then you don't have to leave the house much at all on weekends, and when you do, it isn't for the purpose of meeting people. And, personally, when I browse online dating sites, I see people to whom I am sexually attracted, but no one inspires "that feeling" where I want to meet them.
(I suspect most people, or at least most males, are choosing people to interact with on social media just based on being sexually attracted to the pics in their profile. But I don't know, maybe some people feel a romantic spark based on online profiles...I certainly do not experience that. I have to have some interaction with the person in the real world before I would feel that way.)
So yeah...if it didn't happen in school, it just gets harder and harder to find that first relationship as time goes on. And then you find yourself at 41...50....60...80...never having found anyone who reciprocates your feelings. And that sucks, it truly sucks.
Even if you do meet someone at work, you may think twice about a workplace romance. If you meet someone in a business/commercial environment, like a vet or a bank teller, you may also think twice about asking them out because you may not want to put them on the spot. It's just different from meeting someone at the bookstore or what not.
But the biggest potential problem is that people largely learn by doing.
If one hasn't had a relationship, how have they learned how to do relationship?
How have they learned what they like, what they don't?
How have they learned how to deal with the problems that are sure to crop up?
They haven't.
...
The issue I have with this logic...
I know lots of men who learned how to do relationships BADLY by doing them BADLY and then having them fail but they just blame the other person. Maybe that other person never told them "You do this very badly and you should change" or maybe they DID tell them but the guy was deaf to criticism, I don't know.
"He has learned by doing"...doesn't mean he's learned good things. And I've known people who spent a lifetime doing and yet finished as the kind of grade a jerks I wouldn't want around. How DIDN'T they learn better, what with all the doing that they did?
And haven't you ever been an uninvolved third party watching a situation from the outside and felt you saw it clearer than either person who was in it? Like there is a reason why people in conflict seek mediation. I think some people can perhaps learn more by observing, at least when it comes to certain kinds of behavior...when they were that third party who saw what people were doing wrong in their relationships enough to know what landmines to avoid when they eventually started doing the thing.
How have they learned what they like, what they don't?
Are we talking about sex? Presumably they've had experiences, even on their own, maybe they have watched a lot of porn so they at least know what turns them on... And do not forget the fact that the most important sexual organ is the brain. An older virgin man probably does have some ideas what he's interested in, what he'd like to try. He may need a patient partner, because his first attempts might not go precisely as he envisioned them. But sex is a messy and awkward business anyways. Two people always need to get to know each other, there's a bit of learning curve involved if they want to have an optimal experience for both parties. Dan Savage says that being a good lover is about being GGG (Good, Giving, Game.) Someone who is new to it, can still be all of those things.
The only concern I'd have, has to do with why someone remained a virgin a long time, because sometimes there are factors such as religion or upbringing that might make them shameful or inhibited...now THAT kind of psychological sex-baggage can cause issues. But people who are not virgins sometimes have that sort of stuff going on too, so...*shrug*...
"How have they learned how to deal with the problems that are sure to crop up?"
What problems?
Presumably as adult persons they have learned how to cope with life in various ways, so when a new problem arises they tackle it with whatever life skills they've learned. Like a man who has never been in a romantic relationship, has nevertheless interacted with other human beings. He knows how to talk, to resolve conflict, to negotiate. He has some idea of how to "human."
I'm still not understanding exactly what areas are of such concern that folks assume the inexperienced partner has no clue what to do with...? I haven't really run into any particular issues of this kind with the inexperienced partner I'm with, nor the ones I was with when I was younger either.
And the worst male partners by far, the most selfish, thoughtless, insensitive, infuriating ones...all were very experienced men (or claimed to be, and I had no reason to doubt them.) In fact one particular problem with my ex was that he was forever punishing and suspecting me, because of other women betraying his trust before I came along. People can learn bad habits as easily as they can learn good ones. Maybe more so.
.
But the biggest potential problem is that people largely learn by doing.
If one hasn't had a relationship, how have they learned how to do relationship?
How have they learned what they like, what they don't?
How have they learned how to deal with the problems that are sure to crop up?
They haven't.
I like the way you summarized this. Someone who has never had a relationship has learned to go it on their own, which may make a relationship more challenging. Not impossible, but more challenging because they're behind the learning curve in comparison to their peers.
It's one thing to meet someone to have a relationship with, and an entirely different thing to be in and sustain a relationship. Generally speaking, the older we get, the more we get set in our ways, so you have be flexible, adaptable and open to change in order to make a relationship work. Being in a relationship is a radical change for someone who has always done things on their own, someone who has never had to consider the feelings of another when making choices. It's really easy to live when you do whatever you want when you want and there isn't anyone else to consider or be accountable to.
Shameless bump to repeat a question that got buried a few pages back.
Several women chiming in to state that a relationship-less man at age 40 would be a problem. The statement was made that “there must be a reason he has never been in a relationship by 40 if he wanted to be” and whatever that reason was “he’s not interested <or capable> of fixing it.”
My question is, what is the magic midnight age when a relationship-less guy turns into an undateable pumpkin? (Obviously subjective, I’m asking the opinions of women for whom their status would be an issue.). Why is it 40? At what age does the most obvious issue, lack of experience in a relationship, become a deal-breaker? Could it also be 35? 30? 25?
Also. If a guy is trying over a course of years for a relationship and failing...is that not as big of a red flag, if you found it out?
What about someone who is trying to work on their issues? (The “unwilling to change or fix themselves” statement.) Do they get consideration if you find out?
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