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Interesting. That men often do not value a women's career on the marriage market as much as women do in men appears to have biological underpinnings. It also explains why women tend to want men to have the money.
It found that women with careers are more likely to have androgynous figures which indicate higher levels of androgens - a group of hormones that includes the male hormone testosterone associated with strength, stamina and competitiveness. In contrast, women with more shapely and curvy figures, were found to have higher levels of estrogen, a hormone that appears to be vital for a successful conceiving.
Women with this type of figure are less prone to chronic disease and are typically considered to be more attractive. In addition, large-breasted and narrow-waisted women have also been shown to have higher levels of estrogen and progesterone, other female hormones associated with optimal fertility.
I have run into this before in non-western cultures where women's hour glass figures are not quite as in demand because of environmental stresses causing women to work. Perhaps women go into emergency work mode to sacrifice fertility for survival. It is also again consistent that well to do men may not really be looking for career women. When a man is producing all the resources a women may tend towards fertility mode.
Its funny how there are so many "studies" out there discovering and defining what all of us already really knew.
Hi zz4guy,
That is what I have been trying to point out. Having men and women as I see so often in this forum complain about the other as if it were an issue preference and recreation really over estimates the volitional nature of it. Nature does not care if we are happy. It cares that we survived. Our brains, as fantastic as they are, are sitting on a heap of drives and biology. To the extend we wish to manipulate these fundamental drives, I think requires honestly assessing them for what they actually are.
So where can I get one of those bodies that this study says is less effective for producing children? Bring on the career too, if that will stop the ability as well!
This is actually true, my mother back in the mid 80's was pregnant with my brother. She had a psycho fat german woman as a manager who did everything possible to make her miserable. She almost lost my brother while being pregnant. The work place is no place for a pregnant woman. The need to be taking time off their feet and avoiding stress.
So where can I get one of those bodies that this study says is less effective for producing children? Bring on the career too, if that will stop the ability as well!
Hi Colddiamond102,
If you read the study you would know to simply bring on the high stress career. You will then enter survival mode which will also have the benefits of having men lose interest which compliments the basic loss in fertility. The only side effect is you will end up getting the same chronic illnesses men do.
If you read the study you would know to simply bring on the high stress career. You will then enter survival mode which will also have the benefits of having men lose interest which compliments the basic loss in fertility. The only side effect is you will end up getting the same chronic illnesses men do.
Damn. I like the man Ive got....dont want to chase him away.
If you read the study you would know to simply bring on the high stress career. You will then enter survival mode which will also have the benefits of having men lose interest which compliments the basic loss in fertility. The only side effect is you will end up getting the same chronic illnesses men do.
Im am always leary of these "studies" when I cant read the actual details concerning time frames, study subjects, etc. I agree with zz4 that this is pretty common knowledge that stress levels affect fertility not only in humans but the animal kingdom as well and obviously the stress can be caused by something other than career.
Dude,
If you mom was working and got pregnant then the job didnt affect her fertility.
An interesting article, but I do think we need to be careful not to misinterpret it to mean that women who choose to focus on their careers are wrong. Each person must choose his or her own path in life.
I have been noticing quite a bit of criticism in the Relationships forum lately against nontraditional women. Could be a sign of conservative backlash in these difficult times.
Something we all might consider is that not many women nowadays have the luxury of choosing to be stay-at-home moms. Most of us have to work. Marriages do not tend to last these days. What happens to a woman who chooses not to pursue a career, who chooses instead to be a wife and mother; and then finds herself without a husband and without a job within five years? Then we will hear the conservative criticism bashing welfare mothers.
What is the answer? Who knows? I don't think there is any definitive answer that is right for all women.
An interesting article, but I do think we need to be careful not to misinterpret it to mean that women who choose to focus on their careers are wrong. Each person must choose his or her own path in life.
I have been noticing quite a bit of criticism in the Relationships forum lately against nontraditional women. Could be a sign of conservative backlash in these difficult times.
Something we all might consider is that not many women nowadays have the luxury of choosing to be stay-at-home moms. Most of us have to work. Marriages do not tend to last these days. What happens to a woman who chooses not to pursue a career, who chooses instead to be a wife and mother; and then finds herself without a husband and without a job within five years? Then we will hear the conservative criticism bashing welfare mothers.
What is the answer? Who knows? I don't think there is any definitive answer that is right for all women.
Hi Nala8,
This took longer than I thought. Its not about right or wrong. Its about the why. Men are frustrated in their 20s and women begin to see it in their 30s as they trade places. As I have said consistently on this forum, women should do as they please. They just need to be aware of the implications. The problem inherent in this proposition, is men will also do as they please. Women overestimate their careers as having par value on the marriage market the same as men. Thus they overestimate their status. Many men see their status rise in their 30s. Career success often more than offsets. Women cannot offset the lower status of their 30s in like manner though they typically were coming from a better position.
Women looking for mates will find themselves selecting from a pool that tends to exclude roofers and plumbers. They perceive as suitable mates high powered career males. Unfortunately, the pool for men is much broader and they select educated healthy fertile women as high status. The woman's career is not at par. Interestingly, the career itself takes that aspect of her status down even more than I expected because her hormones are shutting down fertility mode.
A woman's career is basically for her. I have never been around men who talk about what women do for a living. They are just not that interested. I was not either. I considered an educated women coming from my class as having value but not really a high status career. I would not be terribly interested to see androgens shift her towards a less attractive androgyny either. I don't find career terribly attractive in a mate.
With kids a stay at home mother is actually not much poorer for it given the added expenses like another car, day care, taxes and other expenses. The problem is certainly when a women left in a lurch with divorce. However this brings us full circle. In subsistence societies women do exist in a more androgynous survival mode and become bread winners. With the high divorce rate, perhaps women are also becoming more androgynous. Though the effect is to be less attractive to men and given that times of stress are not good times to reproduce, its not so surprising.
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