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Is it really so childish? Voting for him is just the beginning. It seems like he simply expected people to vote for him. Hell is reserved for those who wouldn't follow his rules here on Earth. But those rules really aren't asking so much if you think about it. Basically, they're all a test of moral and ethics. Breaking most of the rules are simply immoral and unethical. Why would God want his Kingdom full of people who are going to rape someone or cheat on their wife or murder or take more than one or two peppermints out of the bowl on the counter? He's really not asking so much.
Don't get me wrong I'm still weighing out the pros and cons of it all. But the main thing going on in my head is "Why would I take the chance of burning in Hell when all I have to do to avoid it is not be an immoral unethical waste of life." The last thing is to simply believe he exists and say that's why you live like that. I mean even if he really doesn't exist at the end of it all, what changes for you? Nothing. lol. Just seems like a stupid chance to take just because you want to reject the idea of it.
First, I want to say that I respect that you are seeking. You are trying to determine your worldview, which may change over and over again during your life. Mine too. I've been where you are. I am there now just on the other side of the coin.
On the surface what you are saying sounds good, but the deeper implications are the problem for me. As you dig deeper into Christianity and begin to uncover and discover, you will see that belief in Jesus does require more than "to simply believe he exists and say that's why you live like that". There is much more to Christianity than being a good person AND believing in Jesus as the savior to all man. However, even if this was all there was, I just don't believe it anymore.
#1 - How can we know that Jesus really said & did these things? Aside from the Bible, there is no evidence. I have to believe the Bible is totally accurate in order to believe Jesus said what he did, and it's too implausible.
#2 - If I could believe that the Bible was literal, with no errors, how can a just, benevolent god send his "children" to hell, to suffer for an eternity for finite crimes? Infinite punishment for a finite sin. That's not justice. I know the arguments that a just god cannot allow any sin, regardless of size or duration; his goodness will not permit it. That's an evil god. Period. I want nothing to do with him.
What really struck me about your post, however, was the last paragraph:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymathic Hunt
I mean even if he really doesn't exist at the end of it all, what changes for you? Nothing. lol. Just seems like a stupid chance to take just because you want to reject the idea of it.
Again, let me say that I respect that you are seeking. I will answer your question in an indirect way. Please bear with me.
First, with all respect, it comes across as a self-serving. You are betting on Jesus because you don't want to lose (hell). This attitude, if I understand scripture correctly, will actually not serve you. You will be turned away, according to some teachings, because you don't seek Jesus and his love only a ticket out of hell. That's not true conviction or true religion. That's fear.
Actually, that's just my whole point - fear. My perception of your posts, forgive me if I'm incorrect, is that you're afraid of hell. OP, that's what you're post strikes me as also. Fear. The bible tells people in something like 64 verses (all total about 2 pages out of the hundreds) about "hell" or "Sheol" or any of the other numerous names, and it flips people out so they run for Jesus. I'm not being facetious or sarcastic. I was this little kid. I was 7 years old when I first heard about hell and ran for Jesus so fast! It was fear. I hurt for the thousands of little kids that get the tar scared out of them the way I did. I know that people believe that they are doing the right thing but it was wrong to scare me, and it's wrong to have children living in fear that every "bad" thing they think about a classmate, every mistake they make will send them into everlasting fire. That they will be separated from everyone and everything they love because they are evil and no matter how hard they try they will never be good enough. It hurt me more than I can express. I see that in OP and in poly's.
That is a major reason why I reject the Judeo-Christian god. If he would send children to hell, I want nothing to do with him. If he would send people to hell who never heard of him, I want nothing to do with him. That is not a fair, just, holy god; that is an evil one.
Also I'm going to go ahead and assume you think I have a close minded view on everything you atheists say and you would be wrong there as well. To be honest I've been on this is what... 4 hours? I've taken so much in my head is spinning. I have quite a bit to chew on.
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This forum is certainly not the most gentle place that you'll find in leading you to information you need so you can try to figure it out
More like throwing you off the end of the pier to learn to swim rather than sending you to Red Cross Swimming Class
Another Also to add here, My interest in religion has nothing to do with a fear of no afterlife more of a fear of a horrible afterlife where I burn in the damning fires of Hell. I would say that's quite a threat to simply ignore because some katts on a forum throw some well thought out insults my way. You see, for me you haven't truly disproved anything you've simply told me that you don't believe it. Well, honestly, I don't really believe it either. But that doesn't mean I'm going to quickly toss it as a possibility. To me it's just as hard to imagine my consciousness simply ceasing to exist as it is to imagine a God that will judge the rest of my eternity.
Ok, perhaps you may want to disregard my last post. Your previous post did strike me as fear, but you're saying that doesn't apply to you. I take you at your word.
I'm afraid you will find no evidence for or against Christianity. It's just a belief. I do admire you for shifting through it. Many people just believe without question. Please continue to post and share your thoughts with us.
Peppermint - There's not much I can say to your post. You make many valid points. I will tell you however that fear of Hell is not my One and only concern but it was the subject of this thread. I also find it VERY hard to believe that this Earth perfectly balanced world we lived it was created randomly through completely ridiculous odds. I've heard theory before and I passed it on until I began to think of how balanced the earth and it's contents really are. Down to the very smallest details.
In response to the very last line of your post, I haven't read the bible in quite some time but I do believe it mentions that those who die too young to fully comprehend religion and Good and Evil are granted access. I also believe it says something along the lines of everyone gets a chance to hear the word of the lord before the perish. Though this could be a chip in my memory or a misinterpretation by me.
again with this categorization. "Christian" I don't believe I have said I was a christian either and let me quote myself here since you may have skipped over that in a blind rage of disagreement and completely misunderstood my purpose here in this discussion and on this site as a whole:
"On the subject of what I believe - Like I said previously, my view of it all changes daily. I'm constantly mulling over any and all views I can get my hands on. Why would I simply accept your view without questioning it in every possible way first? Nothing has ever been completely proven or disproved to me therefore I cannot come to a concrete decision yet. After all I would say the subject is not one to be taken lightly. "
Also I'm going to go ahead and assume you think I have a close minded view on everything you atheists say and you would be wrong there as well. To be honest I've been on this is what... 4 hours? I've taken so much in my head is spinning. I have quite a bit to chew on.
Another Also to add here, My interest in religion has nothing to do with a fear of no afterlife more of a fear of a horrible afterlife where I burn in the damning fires of Hell. I would say that's quite a threat to simply ignore because some katts on a forum throw some well thought out insults my way. You see, for me you haven't truly disproved anything you've simply told me that you don't believe it. Well, honestly, I don't really believe it either. But that doesn't mean I'm going to quickly toss it as a possibility. To me it's just as hard to imagine my consciousness simply ceasing to exist as it is to imagine a God that will judge the rest of my eternity.
Nobody can tell you 100% what is going to happen to anyone after death. You will experience it soon enough yourself. So while you are not sure what you should believe, why not simply try and be as good a human as possible? And as Satan is handing you over the asbestos underwear, you can still file a complaint saying CD members have lead you astray
Originally Posted by Polymathic Hunt Another Also to add here, My interest in religion has nothing to do with a fear of no afterlife more of a fear of a horrible afterlife where I burn in the damning fires of Hell. I would say that's quite a threat to simply ignore because some katts on a forum throw some well thought out insults my way. You see, for me you haven't truly disproved anything you've simply told me that you don't believe it. Well, honestly, I don't really believe it either. But that doesn't mean I'm going to quickly toss it as a possibility. To me it's just as hard to imagine my consciousness simply ceasing to exist as it is to imagine a God that will judge the rest of my eternity.
Ok, perhaps you may want to disregard my last post. Your previous post did strike me as fear, but you're saying that doesn't apply to you. I take you at your word.
I'm afraid you will find no evidence for or against Christianity. It's just a belief. I do admire you for shifting through it. Many people just believe without question. Please continue to post and share your thoughts with us.
you misread the red section and skipped the blue I believe. It directed at someone who said my fear was of "No Afterlife" not of hell
I also find it VERY hard to believe that this Earth perfectly balanced world we lived it was created randomly through completely ridiculous odds. I've heard theory before and I passed it on until I began to think of how balanced the earth and it's contents really are. Down to the very smallest details.
I have been reading a lot about evolution lately, and it's actually not too random. I encourage you to keep reading and seeking. I am filling up on scientific information right now, as I spent the majority of my life reading Christian apologetics and creation science. All the miraculous wonders they focus on in those two subjects are skewed. Keep seeking, my friend. You and I will figure ourselves out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymathic Hunt
In response to the very last line of your post, I haven't read the bible in quite some time but I do believe it mentions that those who die too young to fully comprehend religion and Good and Evil are granted access. I also believe it says something along the lines of everyone gets a chance to hear the word of the lord before the perish. Though this could be a chip in my memory or a misinterpretation by me.
Some churches teach this, but there is no such verse, I'm afraid. A literal interpretation doesn't allow this to be true. I think John 4:16 makes it clear: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If Jesus really said it and he is who he said he is (if the bible is to be taken literally), then I don't see how churches can teach otherwise.
The christian god seems to be a nasty deity; jealous, arrogant, belligerent, sadistic...
You really don't know what he has in store for you in heaven, do you?
The christian god seems to be a nasty deity; jealous, arrogant, belligerent, sadistic...
You really don't know what he has in store for you in heaven, do you?
John 14: 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
That one verse describes a bunch of blind individuals who have either been brainwashed or have absolutely no understanding of right and wrong. IMO!
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And as Satan is handing you over the asbestos underwear, you can still file a complaint saying CD members have lead you astray 
