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Those verses sound too nonsensical to be a part of Christianity, don't they?
For as long as the Old Testament is a part of the Bible, it is a part of Christian belief system, even though a lot of it contradicts Jesus' ways. Those verses are as valid and living in Christianity as everything else that sounds "agreeable", like the Ten Commandments, the stories of Abraham, Noah, David.
Well said... for someone on the outside attempting to invalidate Christianity. I will give you that. But you fail to understand the teaching of the Christian faith regarding the old Testament. In very simple terms (these things get really boring otherwise), the OT is a type and shadow of things to come. In other words we do accept the history as accurate and true but we are not bound by the text as it is an allegory for the war we wage on a spiritual level with ourselves.
This is very orthodox Christian teaching.
You are free to believe as you choose. I see no benefit in debating the subject with you.
Careful Ghost... the Prophet Muhammed said Jesus was a Profet of Allah but that Christians had distorted his teaching.
Religious lunacy can be amusing when you look into it as an outsider. Jews, Islam and Christianity have a different take on Jesus, and all three can't be right. Judaism sees Islam and Christianity having a distorted view of this person called Jesus. Islam has its own take, and of course, so do Christians. Now, who are you to tell others that you don't own one of the distorted views yourself?
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If we are going to view Jesus Christ as a prophet of Allah, we must view him as such thru the teaching of the Koran.
Or, you could see how He is referenced in Koran.
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While I cannot speak with utter autority, I have heard one Imam state that Jihad is the second most discussed subject in the Koran.
And what exactly is your interpretation of the word "Jihad"? Do you think it is what the Imam may have alluded to?
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Holy War, while praciticed by Christians in times past, is not found in New Testament teaching.
Oh, there's your interpretation. What if it meant something else?
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Originally Posted by Ferd
Well said... for someone on the outside attempting to invalidate Christianity. I will give you that. But you fail to understand the teaching of the Christian faith regarding the old Testament. In very simple terms (these things get really boring otherwise), the OT is a type and shadow of things to come. In other words we do accept the history as accurate and true but we are not bound by the text as it is an allegory for the war we wage on a spiritual level with ourselves.
This is very orthodox Christian teaching.
You are free to believe as you choose. I see no benefit in debating the subject with you.
Actually you're just as free to believe, including your idea of an "outsider". What is type and shadow about the verses that I provided from the Old Testament? The fact that Jesus Himself addressed and contradicted some of the beliefs from Old Testament, how do you defend the type and shadow cast?
You might want to read up on history.
The middle-east was mostly christian at one time.
It was not taken over by peaceful methods.
The crusades were largely an effort to "take back the holy land".
There was some greed involved and some barbaric acts but..
Reclaiming lands that were taken was the main goal.
Europe was also very close to being taken over at many points.
It took hundreds of years to reclaim Spain.
When was the middle east mostly Christian? I think you are mistaken.
I see much hate towards people of other faiths from Muslims. What would Muhammed say about Christians and people of other faiths?
Does Muhammed want us to love non Muslims? Or should they declare JIHAD on everyone and declare everyone else as infidel?
NOTE-Before I get slammed, I KNOW not all Muslims are like this.
And yes, I am an atheist. Just sick and tired of seeing people mock Christianity and other religions when Islam cannot be touched. Sick of them making other religions feel guilty for "picking" on Islam.
Something along these lines I presume? From the Bible:
"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'"
- Numbers 25:3-4
The problem is, most of you have absolutely no clue or are biased with extreme views towards Islam when you could find very similar rhetoric within your own belief system. The Bible itself, often, presents two contradictory sides to dealing with non-believers among other things. Quran does share plenty with the Old Testament, where absolute hatred and atrocities ruled the day. And just like many "Christians" who take the Old Testament literally (and contradict Jesus' ways), there are Muslims who do the same. Need another example?
"And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman"
- 2 Chronicles 15:12-13
I love how you pick a Bible verse and throw it around. At least put the whole story in there.
As far as the Numbers passage you put in there, that was talking about Canaan. God gave it (the land) to Israel and there were people there (the land was already occupied) who worshiped another god. Israel started to adopt these beliefs and God got mad. HE was saying that if they (Israel) didn't change back to worshiping God, then they should die. Because they were corrupt. This passage has nothing to do with Muslims.
The 2 Chronicles passage, again, was not about Muslims, but Asa and his people who commited themselves to God. They made an oath to be commited to God and only God.
Peace comes as a by - product of giving your life wholeheartedly to God. Israel was and always has been out numbered, in camparasen to it's enemies. In the past they would freak out and pray to idols for help, instead of turning to God. Once they have fallen that far from God, they must die. These people who God wanted dead where idol worshipers, and therefore disobeying God. He didn't say to go out and kill those in other countries, because they are not muslim. The muslims are going to other countries and destroying people. Killings, rapes, etc,etc. They are not doing it because they think that we are corrupting them and their way of life. what about the so called honor killings of their fellow muslims? Why hang a 7 year old boy? Why beat your 16 year old daughter to death, because she walked down the street with a male, that was not a family member? These are excuses that they are using for themselves. Not because it's what God is asking them to do. They do this for terrorisom, and control. Fear. Not to follow God.
Well said... for someone on the outside attempting to invalidate Christianity. I will give you that. But you fail to understand the teaching of the Christian faith regarding the old Testament. In very simple terms (these things get really boring otherwise), the OT is a type and shadow of things to come. In other words we do accept the history as accurate and true but we are not bound by the text as it is an allegory for the war we wage on a spiritual level with ourselves.
This is very orthodox Christian teaching.
You are free to believe as you choose. I see no benefit in debating the subject with you.
this is the teaching of jesus regarding the OT
Matthew 5:17
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"
I see much hate towards people of other faiths from Muslims. What would Muhammed say about Christians and people of other faiths?
Does Muhammed want us to love non Muslims? Or should they declare JIHAD on everyone and declare everyone else as infidel?
NOTE-Before I get slammed, I KNOW not all Muslims are like this.
And yes, I am an atheist. Just sick and tired of seeing people mock Christianity and other religions when Islam cannot be touched. Sick of them making other religions feel guilty for "picking" on Islam.
Theliberalvoice,
Allah says "Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them, for Allah loves those who are just" (Koran 60.8).
in addition Islam gives full protection for those who live under its shariah(laws) for their lives, property and practicing their religion and protecting their places of worship ...
they are called the people of covenant means their protection is a covenant of Allah and His messenger Muhammad to them, and the prophet said "whoever (Muslim) will harm unjustly a non Muslim I will be his opponent in the day of judgment". when Muslims followed the Koran and the Sunna of prophet Muhammad they set the best example for mankind in how people can live together in peace and harmony with respect and dignity in spite of having different religions. Allah is the most great, all glory .
and praise due to Allah and peace be on all the messengers.
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