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Simple non-belief in God I could see as down to ignorance, perhaps being raised in heathenism, but anti-theism entails a rejection of religious sentiments as valid; an important religious sentiment is caring about things beyond the self, either abstract ideals or persons. The call of God is the call to involvement in the world, and rejection of God is a retreat into the self.
I am an agnostic atheist and was not raised as one, but I was raised to value the ability to think for myself. That led to my becoming a heathen. The last sentence above is absurd. I'm quite "involved in the world", thank you very much. Also, I feel it necessary to point that atheism is not by definition anti-theism. It is simply lack of belief in a god, nothing more and nothing less.
I know the logic most atheist use, especially ones that demonize religion. Simple non-belief in God I could see as down to ignorance, perhaps being raised in heathenism, but anti-theism entails a rejection of religious sentiments as valid; an important religious sentiment is caring about things beyond the self, either abstract ideals or persons. The call of God is the call to involvement in the world, and rejection of God is a retreat into the self.
They shouldn't. But they also should have trouble explaining why objective ethical duties would exist. Maybe they would be ethical subjectivists (like David Hume), which would dodge the issue but which undermines ethical notions that many people assume as givens.
Are you for real? It sounds like your parents kept you locked in the closet under the stairs so that you have never had any exposure to anyone that thinks differently than you do...You have no idea how mistaken you are, do you?
Are you for real? It sounds like your parents kept you locked in the closet under the stairs so that you have never had any exposure to anyone that thinks differently than you do...You have no idea how mistaken you are, do you?
That would be the "duties" that may be observed by the closet inhabitant or not, someone else in the family? Then how the parents kept him locked in the broad physical context comes into play.
Some believers seem to think that atheism 'logically' can only lead to one being amoral and having no hope, no happiness, no meaning and only seek self pleasure. None of this is true though. It's just wacky nonsense.
1. Morality is not contingent upon religion/god and it does not equal personal preference morality. What the people making this claim seem to ignore is that there are other ideologies such as nazism which hold a belief in a transcendent being and absolute morality. The christians whom make this claim can't say that their morals are any more valid than those of nazism.
What exactly is your moral absolute then? What basic limiting factor do you have that is universal that says "this is the line"? What determines ultimate right and wrong? If it's society that determines it, you can't blame Hitler for what he did--because his society said it was ok to do it. The people of Germany turned their eyes from it.
What exactly is your moral absolute then? What basic limiting factor do you have that is universal that says "this is the line"? What determines ultimate right and wrong? If it's society that determines it, you can't blame Hitler for what he did--because his society said it was ok to do it. The people of Germany turned their eyes from it.
This is just the typical theist ignorance of atheism and history for that matter. For one, read Mein Kamf and you'll see Hitler did what he did because he thought he was a servant of god. Thus, by your standards, you have no reason to condemn the holocaust. Also, if you believe god determines right and wrong then it follows that your morality is based on nothing more than the whims of a deity and therefore have no reason to say rape, murder, genocide, child molestation and any and all actions you consider to be wrong are actually wrong since, if god were to suddenly permit those actions then you would have to believe they are moral.If you actually read the bible you'll see many of these acts aren't considered wrong and according to Matthew 5:17-20, are still permitted in the New Testament.
I know (1) the logic most atheist use, especially ones that demonize religion. Simple (2) non-belief in God I could see as down to ignorance, perhaps (3)being raised in heathenism, but (4) anti-theism entails a rejection of religious sentiments as valid; an important religious sentiment is caring about things beyond the self, either abstract ideals or persons. The call of God is the call to involvement in the world, and (5) rejection of God is a retreat into the self.
They shouldn't. But (6) they also should have trouble explaining why objective ethical duties would exist. Maybe they would be ethical subjectivists (like David Hume), which would dodge the issue but which undermines ethical notions that many people assume as givens.
1. There is no such thing as "most atheist."
2. There being only one definition (belief in no god), it is not possible for it to be definable as having anything to do with ignorance.
3. Many posters here refer to their upbringing in religious households, so you knew that was false when you posted it.
4. You are confusing atheism with anti-theism.
5. That is your own hypothesis. How can you claim to see inside the mind of somebody else?
6. As has been posted many times before, most people learn their moral and ethical behavior in early childhood from the behavior they see in their role models (mostly their parents). If the parents are kind, caring, honest people, the children are more likely than not to learn that behavior from them.
What exactly is your moral absolute then? What basic limiting factor do you have that is universal that says "this is the line"? What determines ultimate right and wrong? If it's society that determines it, you can't blame Hitler for what he did--because his society said it was ok to do it. The people of Germany turned their eyes from it.
So the only reason you do what you consider right vs what you consider wrong is because your skydaddy tells you to?
Or do you do the "right" thing because YOU also think doing right is better than doing wrong?
What exactly is your moral absolute then? What basic limiting factor do you have that is universal that says "this is the line"? What determines ultimate right and wrong?
I was born and brought up a Christian, and in the process I learned something invaluable as a child, and see as indispensable truth now that any thinking adult should have ingrained out of personal experience. But since you asked this question, I must point at a verse, every Christian shouldn't just read and preach, but also practice: Matthew 7:12
"Do to others as you would have them do to you"
- Matthew 7:12
The theist claims morality from a contradictory book that apparently god wrote.
The atheist says but look at yourselves, you are no different
The theist says no man is perfect except jesus and/or theists are forgiven.
The atheist lives in no condemnation of self and thus the alleged morality of the bible is irrelevant, IOW we need no forgiveness as we do not self condemn
The atheist lives by the laws of the land as does the theist
Only the theist believes they are worthless worms unworthy of love forgiveness etc.
The atheist has no go to guy to seek admonition of wrongdoings, they will make right with the person or in the case of breaking the law pay the penalty meted out.
Reality is, only the theist believes that apologising is not good enough and that one should grovel to a sky creature that does not exist.
Reality is, only the theist has issues with thought crimes. (mostly of a sexual nature)
Reality is, atheists lead moral lives as they conform to the standard of secular laws.
Reality is, theists lead moral lives as they conform to the standard of secular laws.
Of course, there are failures in both camps.
Reality is, the theist cannot demonstrate anything better or different to the atheist.
Reality is, when one makes comparisons, the theists are usually the ones with the higher failure rates.
Only the theist plays the no true Scotsman fallacy card when this shiny mirror is held up to their alleged better morality codes.
See atheists do not conform to any "moral standard" other than what the secular laws decree. So if an atheist falls off the bus, it is the atheist's fault.
Reality is, only theists have excuses for their "bad behaviour"
Conclusion is, theists, clean your own house first. We will be waiting...
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