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But who really cares if a ritual or a celebration had pagan roots if I find joy and happiness in turning that ritual into something meaningful for me?
Only those who wish to belittle others under the not-so-obscure guise of personal attacks.
We have self-proclaimed atheists here that have their heads shoved up their own backsides to equal fundamental theists with their heads in a similar location. Yet, each side proudly stands as some kind of king/queen of the dung hill, proclaiming that their side holds the truth, the absolute truth, and everyone else is all mucked up.
It is true that religion divides people. It is also true that this on-going war between fanatical atheists and fanatical theists are dividing people up as well.
I would love to tell both to just shut the #?$! up! Live and let live. We have enough problems, both personal and societal, to grapple with without bringing in the "who's right about spiritual matters" into the equation.
The theme of the theists is to love. How about just loving and leave it be.
The atheists claim that they want to love and get along with neighbors in a peaceful, cooperative manner. Well, when are you going to start?
What? The other side has to start first? What are we? Israelis and Palestinians? Expecting the other side to blink first? Do we continue to keep gouging out eyes and teeth until the whole world is blind and toothless?
If I want to believe in something, who cares? What real harm has been committed? If you don't want to believe it, then more power to you.
Are we so thin-skinned that when people "bother" us with nonsense that we have to retaliate with harsh words, lawsuits that make lawyers (only) rich, and other punitive measures? Or are we not mature enough to just shrug our shoulders, tune the other people out, and go on our own merry way?
A couple of posters may bring up the legislative issue, and it is true that legislation has been influenced by both sides. Religion and non-religion should not be legislated. When such an ugly animal raises its head, then it should be combatted with ideals that are embodied in the constitution: you cannot force me to think or do or speak in a manner that is contrary to my guaranteed freedoms of being able to speak, think, and do (obviously in conjunction with societal norms).
Forcing an opinion upon society is wrong; yet we make it right when the majority of society agrees with the opinion.
But like I wrote above, most of the objections by both the atheist and theist sides are "paper tigers" compared to the real problems within our societies. Perhaps the ardent battles being waged are a welcome diversion from taking real responsible action in life, an avoidance of real, hard work, a form of non-acceptance that all people are people and are brothers and sisters to us all.
But who really cares if a ritual or a celebration had pagan roots if I find joy and happiness in turning that ritual into something meaningful for me?
Only those who wish to belittle others under the not-so-obscure guise of personal attacks.
We have self-proclaimed atheists here that have their heads shoved up their own backsides to equal fundamental theists with their heads in a similar location. Yet, each side proudly stands as some kind of king/queen of the dung hill, proclaiming that their side holds the truth, the absolute truth, and everyone else is all mucked up.
It is true that religion divides people. It is also true that this on-going war between fanatical atheists and fanatical theists are dividing people up as well.
I would love to tell both to just shut the #?$! up! Live and let live. We have enough problems, both personal and societal, to grapple with without bringing in the "who's right about spiritual matters" into the equation.
The theme of the theists is to love. How about just loving and leave it be.
The atheists claim that they want to love and get along with neighbors in a peaceful, cooperative manner. Well, when are you going to start?
What? The other side has to start first? What are we? Israelis and Palestinians? Expecting the other side to blink first? Do we continue to keep gouging out eyes and teeth until the whole world is blind and toothless?
If I want to believe in something, who cares? What real harm has been committed? If you don't want to believe it, then more power to you.
Are we so thin-skinned that when people "bother" us with nonsense that we have to retaliate with harsh words, lawsuits that make lawyers (only) rich, and other punitive measures? Or are we not mature enough to just shrug our shoulders, tune the other people out, and go on our own merry way?
A couple of posters may bring up the legislative issue, and it is true that legislation has been influenced by both sides. Religion and non-religion should not be legislated. When such an ugly animal raises its head, then it should be combatted with ideals that are embodied in the constitution: you cannot force me to think or do or speak in a manner that is contrary to my guaranteed freedoms of being able to speak, think, and do (obviously in conjunction with societal norms).
Forcing an opinion upon society is wrong; yet we make it right when the majority of society agrees with the opinion.
But like I wrote above, most of the objections by both the atheist and theist sides are "paper tigers" compared to the real problems within our societies. Perhaps the ardent battles being waged are a welcome diversion from taking real responsible action in life, an avoidance of real, hard work, a form of non-acceptance that all people are people and are brothers and sisters to us all.
HEAR HEAR!! I liked it Wallis...and THAT'S a fact!
Maybe we should switch it back to "Paschal Holiday" or some such to avoid this issue.
But anyway why we're discussing this now is I mentioned that Easter is more religiously significant than Christmas. Melvin tried to say how it's just as "pagan" as Christmas. I showed him why he was wrong, that in most languages the word for Easter relates to Resurrection or Passover, but he didn't take to that well. (I think it's a rule with atheists that Christians MUST be dumber than them so when we're not they have varied reactions. In fairness many are pleased to discover that, but others I guess are more prone to get snide and irritable about it.) So in his perverse way I think he had to insist on the point more strongly to tell me more forcefully about what I already knew about an English word. I gave a bit by saying some of the imagery we use is pagan, but ultimately the holiday is not boiled down to eggs or a word. The word "Easter" is no more the holiday than a drawing of a pipe is a pipe.
It's unfortunate because I usually just skip his messages entirely and if I'd done so again the whole thing wouldn't have happened.
The Village church where my wife & I were married was built on an ancient Pagan place of worship.
At the entrance to the church is a Pagan standing stone (like the ones at Stonehenge but obviously smaller) that always reminds the villagers of their ancestral past.
My point is the Christians may have stolen Pagan celebration rites, and built churches on Pagan sites, but there are still people who follow the old ways.
Many people forget that the English were forcibly converted to Christianity at the point of a Roman sword.
Good luck with not offending someone. You and I both know that logic, reason, and facts are punished here, while fantasy, mythology, and delusion are allowed free rein. We can't even express our joy in being free to think for ourselves without being silenced, while the religious can endlessly post hallelujahs and praises without repercussion.
+1, trying to argue is like banging your head off the wall - it's a waste of time, and your head is going to hurt after awhile.
Maybe we should switch it back to "Paschal Holiday" or some such to avoid this issue.
But anyway why we're discussing this now is I mentioned that Easter is more religiously significant than Christmas. Melvin tried to say how it's just as "pagan" as Christmas. I showed him why he was wrong, that in most languages the word for Easter relates to Resurrection or Passover, but he didn't take to that well. (I think it's a rule with atheists that Christians MUST be dumber than them so when we're not they have varied reactions. In fairness many are pleased to discover that, but others I guess are more prone to get snide and irritable about it.) So in his perverse way I think he had to insist on the point more strongly to tell me more forcefully about what I already knew about an English word. I gave a bit by saying some of the imagery we use is pagan, but ultimately the holiday is not boiled down to eggs or a word. The word "Easter" is no more the holiday than a drawing of a pipe is a pipe.
It's unfortunate because I usually just skip his messages entirely and if I'd done so again the whole thing wouldn't have happened.
Well, I'm irreligious and I agree with you (I think LOL). Regardless of what was stolen or what cross-over there is with pagan or other sources, Christmas and Easter now 'mean something' within the context of Christianity. In that context, Easter is 'more important' than Christmas. It's similar in Judaism - despite Americans' insistence that Chanukah is Jewish Christmas, the only connection is that, like Christmas, Chanukah is 'less important' than Passover.
For the record - Jewish Christmas is going out for Asian food and a movie on Christmas eve or day It used to be Chinese food only but we've branched out and now Thai or other cuisines are acceptable.
Good luck with not offending someone. You and I both know that logic, reason, and facts are punished here, while fantasy, mythology, and delusion are allowed free rein. We can't even express our joy in being free to think for ourselves without being silenced, while the religious can endlessly post hallelujahs and praises without repercussion.
Because logic and reason are not needed when one has ron wyatt to back your claims up.
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It used to be Chinese food only but we've branched out and now Thai or other cuisines are acceptable. 
