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We all know that atheism, when viewed narrowly, is a void and empty theology which can sustain no dogmas as unassailable unless it relies on "real" force, such as vast political control (in China and Russia, where intelligence was essential for power-grabing and atheists were allowed to have organizations and social equality and a History of the Buddhists and Christians hoarding money and allying with the the elite was rampant).
It is therefore not "SHOCKING" that only 30% of children raised in atheist households remained atheist in such a "Religious Privilege" society as found in the United States. Most became Christian (30% Protestant, 10% Catholic) or Jewish (2%) (joining in on the privilege or rejoining the rest of the family), while others became Pagan (succumbing to their spiritualist notions, etc). But why else did atheist have so much trouble keeping young people in their ranks? No community and too much "free" without much "thinker."
The problem of no-dogma also stands true for Agnosticism, when viewed narrowly as merely an epistemology. So I urge my agnostic friends to organize and form community for understanding and enjoyment. This way their children to have a defense against the corruption of the religionists.
the idea of "no real atheist" is rather odd, but it can be loosely understood to mean that "real atheists" are "strong thinkers" instead of just atheist through sloth or birth, as many nonacademic atheists are.
...Now, If we look at the data closely, we see that those with "None" for a religion (or "no religion in particular") have an 8% higher retention rate than atheists. It seems those parents are a bit better at educating their children as they were educated. (Perhaps afraid of Russian or Chinese history, where atheism was used as one excuse to support a totalitarian state and figure-head worship, since those with "spiritualist" genes are often prone to submission and blind loyalty).
If we take into account that Buddhism is not necessarily "theist", that Agnosticism (which can be viewed as "atheist" in some form) was not included since it barely existed a generation ago, and that the "Nones" have been parceled out, we find from these studies that the "atheist-like" previous generation had a retention rate of somewhere around 60%, far lower than Catholics, but about that of Baptists. It is something to watch for and prevent, in my opinion. Education and Community is key.
Also problematic are the statistics that show that the none-religiously affiliated have mostly (67%) no children. and almost 1/3 have never married.
Relying on deconverts seems to still be increasing the numbers, but the threat of religion still looms.
Although as far as I know the Study linked was conducted before 2008 by a Catholic University, and the graphic was made by the Pew.
Any thoughts?
.... and just for kicks -->
Notice how 21% of reported atheists believe in some sort of God. "too much free, not enough thinker."
Spoiler
Full Disclosure: I didn't read the study, nor did I analyze it in depth... just a perusal of comments and posts on the study
From your link.....Religion is in trouble everywhere, including the United States. In many countries, there are millions of second and third generation atheists who will never believe in imaginary supernatural beings. Those who are making a big deal of this apparent retention rate among Americans are a lot like the passengers who concentrated on rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic was sinking.
I'm atheist but you can't raise your kids atheist. My kids are free to do what they want about beliefs in a higher power or reason for it all. The spiritual rules they follow will simply be found of their own free will. Same as their career choice or the kind of car they want to drive when they are adults or close enough to make those decision. I encourage the study of religion and Mythology as part of their education.
I really have nothing big to share. Atheism isn't a religion so, nothing to keep going on with generation after generation. Atheist isn't a proper noun, we aren't "something." It's just an individual choice.
The only problem I would have with one of my family members becoming religious is if they were to promote making laws that weren't tolerant of equal rights. I've only tried to instill tolerance of others not my reasoning for being an atheist.
I'm not sure why this is so hard for Theists to understand, it seems to be a constant theme.
But anywho, I'm not sure what an Agnostic would make out of it all. They are very individual in their beliefs. Agnostic is just a title. IMO, of course.
I'm atheist but you can't raise your kids atheist. My kids are free to do what they want about beliefs in a higher power or reason for it all. The spiritual rules they follow will simply be found of their own free will. Same as their career choice or the kind of car they want to drive when they are adults or close enough to make those decision. I encourage the study of religion and Mythology as part of their education.
I really have nothing big to share. Atheism isn't a religion so, nothing to keep going on with generation after generation. Atheist isn't a proper noun, we aren't "something." It's just an individual choice.
The only problem I would have with one of my family members becoming religious is if they were to promote making laws that weren't tolerant of equal rights. I've only tried to instill tolerance of others not my reasoning for being an atheist.
I'm not sure why this is so hard for Theists to understand, it seems to be a constant theme.
But anywho, I'm not sure what an Agnostic would make out of it all. They are very individual in their beliefs. Agnostic is just a title. IMO, of course.
How often do you meet with your community? would you say for a few hours once every week?
Why don't you teach your children why you are an atheist? Do you like allowing for them or yourself to possibly believe falsehoods?
Why not discuss with them often and see if they can convince you of theism? Does it drive a wedge through the family to talk about theology? I don't think so, I think incivility is what drives wedges through families, no matter the topic being discussed.
If I were to advise the atheists, (if they truly want to be competitive with religion and get those sorts of people into the atheist fold) I would urge them to compete with the religious and ban the social norm of atheists as the "oppress-able outgroup."
Simply having public community meeting on Sunday,
more positive instead of negative marketing, a stronger sense of "atheist" identity (so that their children believe it is necessary to be part of the family),
showing that they are the victim which is why they want to uphold the Revolutionary values of Secularism through ending the anti-constitutional and propagandist "pro-God's existence on graven Money and patriotic Pledge" through non-violent civil disobedience and legal/moral argument,
Repaint the current Sunday-school histories of the religious with an books which have an emphasis on their evils (as the Christians would do of pagans) through writing history and commentary books about it and showing statistics of how once the community turned atheist it changed in other ways for the better,
Write books and commentary which delineate clearly and simply why religions and theism are bad,
Allow for the States and Federal government (mainly the Federal government) to attempt to establish a benevolent secular theocracy (if at all possible) as was done in the now highly none-religious European countries,
push marriage and lots of children (whether birthed or adopted) as social ideals, think about urban vs. rural,
And show a higher morality and ethic and intellect than the religious,
etc.
Its a big market out there, you either let the religionists continue their slave-trade, or buy some slaves and free them yourself. Still, I think most of these people are corrupt by their nature, which is why they accept religion and continue being corrupt since "they can't help it."
How often do you meet with your community? would you say for a few hours once every week?
I'm unsure in what capacity you're getting at? Meet my community, as in other atheists? Or just get out in my community in general regarding all topics and events?
Why don't you teach your children why you are an atheist? Do you like allowing for them or yourself to possibly believe falsehoods?
They know I'm atheist, there isn't much to talk about. I don't believe there is a God of any kind. Period. I explained above that I teach tolerance. That includes issues that some Theists argue using their Gods desires for all mankind. My children see this, they can make their own choices accordingly. I trust my kids to know what they believe in for themselves, falsehood is relevant to oneself, IMO. If you believe it then it's not false to you.
Telling them they have to do as I do like mini me's won't ensure they'd be an atheist, it would just ensure they'd grow up thinking I was an idiot who tried to act like her atheism was a religion and force feed it. IMO. The world is pretty large to me, there are over 100 thousand secs of religion.
I am an activist when it comes to civil rights, political rights and liberty. They know how I stand, they came with eyes and ears.
Why not discuss with them often and see if they can convince you of theism? Does it drive a wedge through the family to talk about theology? I don't think so, I think incivility is what drives wedges through families, no matter the topic being discussed.
I'm not sure I get your motive for this. I talk to my kids often about a lot of things. They currently aren't Theists, they currently find it hard to justify. I explained I teach them Theology already above, as well as Mythology.
They have had discussions with me during certain times such as when a Theist denies a friendship for their lack of a certain belief. I explain some segregate themselves from what they see as worldly and why. When they saw the gay boy being beaten at their school because he wanted to play sports, I explained why some people think his gayness is against a God. They learn along the way.
At the same time when a charity is represented by a religion, they see they can be kind as well. Atheist come in all colors and demeanors just like Theists, they see that on their own. If they want to discuss it I do.
What is it you think I'm not doing enough of? I just don't believe in religion, I don't see how teaching atheism is possible. Last I heard it was just a lack of belief, no book necessary, no leader, no God, nothing, nadda, just plain ole me.
Atheists might group up sometimes with a specific agenda against a law, freedoms, etc. but, we aren't a religion, just protecting our freedoms from it, the right to not believe it. Sometimes I group to get God off of public areas of life, Christian based prejudices out of the White house, joining me is usually Theists other than Christians. I also group with other Theists for gay rights, immigrant issues, etc. I don't believe assembly means insta-religion. I'm an atheist by choice, but my belief lies in tolerance. History has proven to me it's quite important to our future.
Now, go mow someone elses lawn. I'm not that interesting.
If I were to advise the atheists, (if they truly want to be competitive with religion and get those sorts of people into the atheist fold) I would urge them to compete with the religious and ban the social norm of atheists as the "oppress-able outgroup."
Simply having public community meeting on Sunday,
more positive instead of negative marketing, a stronger sense of "atheist" identity (so that their children believe it is necessary to be part of the family),
showing that they are the victim which is why they want to uphold the Revolutionary values of Secularism through ending the anti-constitutional and propagandist "pro-God's existence on graven Money and patriotic Pledge" through non-violent civil disobedience and legal/moral argument,
Repaint the current Sunday-school histories of the religious with an books which have an emphasis on their evils (as the Christians would do of pagans) through writing history and commentary books about it and showing statistics of how once the community turned atheist it changed in other ways for the better,
Write books and commentary which delineate clearly and simply why religions and theism are bad,
Allow for the States and Federal government (mainly the Federal government) to attempt to establish a benevolent secular theocracy (if at all possible) as was done in the now highly none-religious European countries,
push marriage and lots of children (whether birthed or adopted) as social ideals, think about urban vs. rural,
And show a higher morality and ethic and intellect than the religious,
etc.
Its a big market out there, you either let the religionists continue their slave-trade, or buy some slaves and free them yourself. Still, I think most of these people are corrupt by their nature, which is why they accept religion and continue being corrupt since "they can't help it."
We all know that atheism, when viewed narrowly, is a void and empty theology which can sustain no dogmas as unassailable unless it relies on "real" force, such as vast political control (in China and Russia, where intelligence was essential for power-grabing and atheists were allowed to have organizations and social equality and a History of the Buddhists and Christians hoarding money and allying with the the elite was rampant).
It is therefore not "SHOCKING" that only 30% of children raised in atheist households remained atheist in such a "Religious Privilege" society as found in the United States. Most became Christian (30% Protestant, 10% Catholic) or Jewish (2%) (joining in on the privilege or rejoining the rest of the family), while others became Pagan (succumbing to their spiritualist notions, etc). But why else did atheist have so much trouble keeping young people in their ranks? No community and too much "free" without much "thinker."
Yep, this is the" danger" of raising your kids to think for themselves. They find God, because they are free of the preconceived notions that plague their parents (Quote" I say there is no God-thus I shall reject any evidence to the contrary) stuff I see here on a regular basis.
Yep, this is the" danger" of raising your kids to think for themselves. They find God, because they are free of the preconceived notions that plague their parents (Quote" I say there is no God-thus I shall reject any evidence to the contrary) stuff I see here on a regular basis.
Oh my, you have evidence for god? You could be famous!!!...I'd sure like to see that evidence and if it is solid I'd change teams in a heartbeat.
The graph, being from 2008 may not accurately reflect what is happening today. Even if it did, all it is really saying is how many people are moving away from atheism, it says nothing about how many people are at the same time becoming atheist, which currently outweighs the people leaving. Unlike Catholicism which has people leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship (5% overall loss of Catholic membership in America)
Lets also bear in mind that both 'Pew' surveys are about American people. It is fair to say that the number of atheists in this country is still very small. But the power of social conformity cannot be underestimated while the religious population is still so large and a shocking 46% of Americans believe in the creationist view of human origin. In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins
As the Pew survey represents only Americans, it can only be said to reflect American culture and religion. That says far more about social conformity than it says about god.
If you carried out a similar survey in a different country such as France or Canada (both 23% atheist), or the UK where atheism is taught in schools and 2 thirds of teenagers are now atheist you would likely find a very different result.
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"too much free, not enough thinker."
I talk to my kids often about a lot of things. They currently aren't Theists, they currently find it hard to justify. I explained I teach them Theology already above, as well as Mythology.
