Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Evolution? (genesis, atheist, bible)
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For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:
"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"
The reverse of precision is an accident aka a spontaneous event that happen by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:
"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"
Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us. This precision renders the evolution theory mere fiction, for precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Take, for example, the first discovered 60 elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of these 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.
The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)
SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:
"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."
QUESTIONS FOR DEBATE: 1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the 60 elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?
2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?
3. Evolution relies upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution were a fact, how does it account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that it has been assigned the word "LAW"?
It takes more faith to be an atheist, as the title of the book says...
If you were to walk into an office building and set off a 5 megaton bomb, after 30 minutes to let the dust settle, would you come back to find everything perfectly in its place? Not just computer keys in their place, but electronic devices functuning?
That's not the definition of the big bang - setting off the bomb in the middle of the desert and returning to find all of that stuff - that's the definition of the big bang.
For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:
"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"
The reverse of precision is an accident aka a spontaneous event that happen by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:
"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"
Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us. This precision renders the evolution theory mere fiction, for precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Take, for example, the first discovered 60 elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of these 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.
The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)
SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:
"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."
QUESTIONS FOR DEBATE: 1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the 60 elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?
2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?
3. Evolution relies upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution were a fact, how does it account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that it has been assigned the word "LAW"?
Uh.... Elements don't have genes, DNA or alleles.
You can put 2 nuggets of gold together but they won't make baby nuggets...
It takes more faith to be an atheist, as the title of the book says...
If you were to walk into an office building and set off a 5 megaton bomb, after 30 minutes to let the dust settle, would you come back to find everything perfectly in its place? Not just computer keys in their place, but electronic devices functuning?
That's not the definition of the big bang - setting off the bomb in the middle of the desert and returning to find all of that stuff - that's the definition of the big bang.
Um ...no. That's not the 'definition' of the Big Bang at all.
It takes more than reading a creationist website to be a scientist.
The basic answers to this is that the theory of the gradual development of life, the universe and everything is rather like a lot of random experiments being tried all at once over billions of years. What works and keeps working....keeps working and what doesn't stops. Thus the processes which certain creationists dub 'evilution' (1) appear to have been precision designed to work, but that is really an illusion cherished by those who are desperate to find any sort of evidence to support the goddunnit - theory.
While that disposes of this idea of an explosion resulting in an ordered structure, since it is a process as meticulous as intelligent design but just doesn't need to be planned - just a few billion years of random experimentation - in the first post above, the 'whirlwind in a junkard' ID fallacy has been conflated with the 'Big Bang'.
This is pretty generally misunderstood - even in science TV programmes, a huge explosion is shown which is not quite what is suggested. However, all that this big bang did it what supernovae have been observed to do - spread out a lot of gas over a remarkably wide area - gas which contains all the elements needed for life the Universe and everything from the abundant hydrogen to the rare but necessary heavy elements and even biochemicals - oh yes, the elements needed for life are all there right from the start.
Now the possibility of a creative mind behind all this cannot logically be ruled out, but there is no sound evidence for it, and the best arguments for it rely on 'Gaps for God' - science being unable to answer all the questions. True enough, but it can answer many of them and is getting set to answer a lot more, even Something out of nothing and abiogenesis while goddunnit really answers nothing and the gaps for God are gradually closing.
The poor science and false arguments such as 'how can an explosion produce order' that we get from creationist apologists does them no favours. It only makes them look scientifically inept and rationally flawed.
Michael Behe did his best in the Irreducible complexity argument, but it has turned out to be a theory which did not fit the facts. An organism can function very well without an addition which is evolved later in response to a further opportunity. Information can be added and their computer programme/language model of DNA is more wishful thinking than fact.
The argument for conditions needed for life are persuasive, but the evidence is that we needed a lot of cataclysms and extinctions to give our rodent ancestors the chance to evolve into the ecological niches left by the extinct dinosaurs. That suggests that we have actually just been lucky. Not that life evolved or that mammals turned into humans- that was just the way it turned out - but that it was you and me. Well, someone has to win the lotto.
Fact is that I could have been a peasant worked to death by a Norman Lord or a Chinese bureaucrat slaughtered by invading Manchus. I wasn't. I am a western educated male able to use a computer to talk to all of you. I've been very lucky, but I see no need to suggest that it was 'planned'.
Now I'd suggest that this isn't the right place for this discussion. You want to discuss Christianity. The Goddunit debate might be better on the Religion and philosophy forum, though, Random Factors knows, it has been done to death there often enough.
(1) which is different from evolution which relates only to the development of life-forms
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-06-2012 at 05:26 AM..
David Hume dealt with the "Watchmaker" theory several hundred years ago and showed that it was based on a false analogy, I imagine. Is it still around?
There is no "before" the big bang, because time did not exist.
Space and time are dimensions that came to exist with the big bang.
How could time not exist? How could matter not exist? Did matter create itself? And if time has a beginning, then doesn't that logically mean that it also has an end?
I do not believe in evolution or a big bang theory persay...But I do believe in Mutation...and creation....But what is the creator....?.....Now in my understanding of scripture..a living Entity was placed at the center of Eden...and Something was said to "deceive Eve into doing something out of line with God's instruction, and to take something not Given....where as everything else was Given..(maybe to protect them for a while, as they were not ready to have this entity)...So something taken out of its place, that was the center point of God's creation....the controller?....gone missing...now what stems from this...is...chaos...and in the chaos something alternate is born?....other things move out of place....So Mutation occurs...looking like Evolution...on the Alternate or Anti....that is created by being oppposed to the Truth of God....
Now if we look at nature in all its complexities and diversities....the unions of all...especially with plants...makes a Reality that is suited for many types of living things.
How does the insect develope to service the plant or to plague it?...how does the fawn come to be the needing of the plant to sustain its life?
How does the system really work?...did the plant create these things to make itself important?..as alot of things need it...in its many forms....one way being a producer of food, and or being the food ...and the line starts there...the simple form of the plant....now if one is missing...the matrix is put into chaos...and the chain of that line of thinking is disrupted...Putting back the plant..resolves the error..and things should resort or be restored...Opposites......Yep...that being said...why are plants being prohibited is just a testement to the truth of God...and something wanting to keep things out of order....using lies, liars, and punishment..even death...to stop people from fulfilling...while bent science tried to keep us alive in a system that does not work for the greator good of all living things....using $$$$ as the false value system told by God not to make...more important than he...
So...the Garden is supposedly why God Made us...to be helpers in....and by removing the right to put back something taken without permission...keeps the mutations going....so they can claim evilution...and their are many demons born now under it....polluting it and paying to be healthy in it..more and more...when we should be living healthy by the acts of God...because we support the anti Of God...nature has turned against us...Virus, bacteria, and plague and pestilences...and the wrath of God is set in motion...to protect the innocent....that human kind still does not understand...we are not the only living things God Cares about...So we should be mindful of all the Good things he has given freely ....the Key word Given..means without cost....and if we are of God...we learn to share this world in good stewardship..and share all the Givens to be like God....not charge, not pollute..not kill..not omit...but make more....not war!
So something done in error...can be corrected...and things of a certain nature will eventually return to their passive states of union!
Is it possible that a certain plant being outlawed is the very key to this ideal? when reading the commandments...thou shall not bare false witness....on another living thing..."If God said it is Good" then it is always Good by God.
So to sow a seed, and bring life of some other kind to life in this world...is prohibited because Humans cannot use it wisely?...or they are programmed to hate it? or lies have been told to keep it out of circulation so a certain estate does not arise...when done in a certain way...Sinlessly.
So...that being said...as the Bible is based on plants..and other living things being saved....the constant that is not mentioned in the creation...has to do with dead things...this was a creation of disobediance...the plant was one of a kind..and it was eaten before it had a chance to make more....and so it died...and the ones who caused it to die...were sent into a alternate estate to get it back, and restore it....thus Acts 3:21 is in tune with that Ideal..as is Acts 10:15 in terms of what God said was good or clean, and not to profane....in Genesis we have the list of green things...underlined!..or brought to light more so , than the other things...Genesis 9:3.
Why is Genesis 9:3 made or brought up more so?...think about it....and in the end those who are being labeled Criminals for Sowing Seeds...are the righteous ones perhaps?...in a bent world order, oppressing sanctioning, hating, killing , murdering, and telling lies.....I see merit in that idea of a peace plant we should give back to God more and more each day......don't you?
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