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Old 10-29-2012, 08:29 PM
 
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Richard Dawkins in furious row with EO Wilson over theory of evolution | Science | The Observer

Quote:
A disagreement between the twin giants of genetic theory, Richard Dawkins and EO Wilson, is now being fought out by rival academic camps in an effort to understand how species evolve
This View of Life: Richard Dawkins, Edward O. Wilson, and the Consensus of the Many

This to my mind just confirms how science works. The controversy is not does evolution happen, but how does it happen.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:21 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,767,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Richard Dawkins in furious row with EO Wilson over theory of evolution | Science | The Observer



This View of Life: Richard Dawkins, Edward O. Wilson, and the Consensus of the Many

This to my mind just confirms how science works. The controversy is not does evolution happen, but how does it happen.
Exactly. This is why challenge and question is always good and needful. Disagreements have always been - Einstein and Bohr over quantum for example. Einstein was wrong. The result is that we know that quantum theory is right, but that doesn't mean that relativity is wrong.

I haven't watched the links yet but 'The consensus of the many' is a fallacy of course. The way the evidence comes down in the end is what is of course, correct.

P.s I have read the links and it's fine. The disagreement is vociferous and may even get personal - at least in pointing up failures in reasoning: e.g appeal to authority - though appeal to expert authority is valid, but even expert authority is open to challenge - and ad populum of course. Deciding what is factually right or wrong on a popular vote is nonsense of course and even on moral or social issues, rights and wrong cannot be safely trusted to a vote.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:59 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,505,785 times
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Exactly. This is why challenge and question is always good and needful. Disagreements have always been - Einstein and Bohr over quantum for example. Einstein was wrong. The result is that we know that quantum theory is right, but that doesn't mean that relativity is wrong.

I haven't watched the links yet but 'The consensus of the many' is a fallacy of course. The way the evidence comes down in the end is what is of course, correct.

P.s I have read the links and it's fine. The disagreement is vociferous and may even get personal - at least in pointing up failures in reasoning: e.g appeal to authority - though appeal to expert authority is valid, but even expert authority is open to challenge - and ad populum of course. Deciding what is factually right or wrong on a popular vote is nonsense of course and even on moral or social issues, rights and wrong cannot be safely trusted to a vote.
Nice article, but I think these two are talking about something rather unique, which is how genes are "selected" in a species. Sounds like Dawkins is rooting on Kin Selection, and Wilson on Group Selection.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Default My 25¢ worth....

The cited article doesn't provide any specifics on the cause of their disagreement. It will, of course, be latched on to by the DIDN'T! cohort (Denialist Intransigent-Dogmo-Numb Theists) as "proof" that "Evolution does not Work!" or that "See! Even the best and brightest can't agree, so THERE!... Nyah!" and so on. Ad nauseum, etc.

The simple outline in the article indicates, if I'm reading it correctly, that Wilson supports a strategy (not a conscious one, obviousy) that multiple genes can be and are involved in the natural selection process (also known as trial and error testing of any new genome set.) Trial and error environmental niche "fit" testing obviously occurs (Duhhh!), and if the new mutation-based gene set discriminates against existence or suitability, it will, natch, not likely support positive reproduction.

Just as obviously, if a gene mutation set provides improved or significantly altered digestive abilities or food choices, improved night sight, leg length, muscle structure or dentition adaptability, even if that's in some micro-nano-incremental improvement on any of these examples, such changes alone will provide a net positive, assuming that variation fits the organism's goals of course. And noting that we don't, for instance, observe in nature a short-legged bunny rabbit turn, within one or two generations, into a long-legged Arctic Hare, Bingo-Voila, as the anti-logical set of DIDN'T! types so persistently demand. Silly, but predictable.

But anyhow, this just happens to fit into my Vectored Evolution™ concept from my 1981 biological research observations in genetics that I'm writing the Wiki article on as we speak...). VE™ means that there can be, and usually are, a set of altered/mutated gene loci that may not have their full, or even any, immediate effect on an organism's functionality or appearance. But a subsequent single or perhaps two or there mutational changes suddenly facilitates a group alteration in several capabilities.

SO it appears, perhaps to Dawkins in his explanations, simplified for the audience at hand, that the single gene is somehow solely responsible for the significantly changed phenotype. In a way, this may be true, since again, according to my EV™ theory, that single gene does indeed start/ignite the series of genetic alterations that produce that spectacular longer-legged rabbit.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.48397...57839&pid=15.1

Dawkins knows of this concept and has also referenced it from his own observations. He does not know of me, of course, but I'm v. sure we'd get along! He surely is also not actually claiming that improvements only occur via a onesy mutational strategem, because it simpy doesn't make sense. Mutations can and do occur in singles, yes: observed & documented. They can alter a phenotypical (outward- or functionality-) change, and thus produce such events as sickle-cell anemia.

Which is, btw, an excellent example of a single gene having a significant effect all on it's own. Sickle cell anemia is an autosomal recessive condition, meaning you need to inherit two copies of the gene (Thanks Mom! Thanks Dad!) to develop the disease. Sickle cell anemia is caused by a single gene mutation in the lone beta-hemoglobin (Hb) gene. The normal DNA sequence for the beta-hemoglobin gene is called HbA, while the sickle cell-causing version is called HbS.

Genetic Causes Of Sickle Cell Anemia | LIVESTRONG.COM

Remember in this hot & cited argument that we do have very specialized and acknowledged expert folks' egos at stake, always, no matter if it's the Pope, your local priest's reputation, a Christian Sciences curriculum teacher, rifleman v. the fundies & DIDN'T cohort here, or Dawkins v. Wilson. Genetic Smackdown!

I don't think there's a real war going on here. It's a semantics argument at best!

("What's semantics??" yowl the poised-to-bite DIDN'T crowd: "'Cause, y'know... if it relates to Evolution, it doesn't exist! Semantics is just a theory!"

Yawn... http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.49717...91954&pid=15.1

(self-portrait of disinterested rifleman in his early formative years... )

Bottom line: the manner in which phenotypical changes are noted, their frequency and their significance, are all subject to the general viewpoint & perspective of whichever geneticist or Evolutionary Ecologist is at the podium. The consequential outcome of the established mutational mechanisms, is, of course, now well observed and is, of course, nolo contenderé, inarguable.

Evolution is exactly how species diversity we now see it, and which is occurring amongst all the planet's organisms as we speak, takes place. Increment by tiny increment, within groups of genes or within single genes in sensitive and facilitating loci or "situations".

I wonder if this answers anything?

Last edited by rifleman; 10-30-2012 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:09 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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DIDN'T! cohort (Denialist Intransigent-Dogmo-Numb Theists)

Like it It was needful to pre -empt any tactical attempt by the anti -evolutionist lobby to claim that evolutionist leaders are falling out, which would of course prove that it isn't true.
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